Archmage is NOT the Problem
" This is exactly the problem. Ppl see other builds that are powerful and assume that it's OP bc they themselves have yet to do the work to theory craft their own build to do better or on par. I think the real problem is the SFF Content Creators. I would have more respect for their opinion if they actually built and played the build so they can understand how hard it is to pull off but bc they are SFF they will most likely never do it bc they choose to SFF and never incorporate any trade. How GGG handles the expected nerfs is really going to make or break the future of POE 2 mainly bc it will tell the player base how much they can trust the devs. For anyone rebutting that this is a BETA; Yes that's true. However, past behavior is the best predictor for a future outcome. |
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most of those ssf content creators could absolutely destroy in trade league tho.
they know what it takes to make builds and they know they are capable of easily putting together those characters in trade. they just think the game should not allow builds beyond a certain level of power. people like ziz and nugi could just go to softcore trade league, farm 5 mirrors and make any build in the game if they really wanted to. |
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" Lets be real, no streamer is farming mirrors, everything they need will be given to them. |
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" Not to mention that taking as a reference whether a build is OP or not based on gameplay from Streamers who always have perfect equipment is irrational. They get equipment from fans, and they are already suspected of always dropping only rare currency items. A build can be OP, but because the investment in it is extremely expensive and time-consuming. Nerfing a build like this is counterintuitive for an ARPG Looter. That's why GGG shouldn't use Streamers as a guide for nerfs or buffs. Because Streamers don't show how builds require high investment and don't go through the steps of doing so. |
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So many problems with OP's analysis (and some responses)....where to even start:
1) THERE ARE ALWAYS MANDATORY MODS. I read many people saying "there should be no mandatory stats". This is ridiculous. There will always be "mandatory" mods you need to scale damage. Flat damage, % damage, and +skill. They are all equally important, with maybe flat damage actually being the MOST impactful (not +skills lol). It is so goddamn stupid to say no mods should be "mandatory". 2) The math doesn't show what the OP is trying to say its showing. Others have also pointed this out. What it actually shows is a pretty standard scaling, with an upper limit hard cap. Archmage is wildly different, offering massive multipliers beyond anything max levels will ever give you. As I mentioned above, flat damage to spells also gives WAY MORE multiplied damage. If you analyze ALL of these in isolation, like the OP tried to do (incorrectly), you can clearly see that +levels is one of the least offenders of the bunch. It's still strong, but its not anything the OP described. 3) As the OP said, +levels doesn't happen in a vacuum. But the same can be said in reverse: take away all the other scaling and +levels is pretty darn normal. Add any two multipliers together in the damage equation and they.....multiply. +levels is only problematic because its imbalanced spells vs. any other skill. But it is definitely not any sort of problem on its own. Archmage is the problem, it was a problem in PoE 1 and went through multiple balance passes....and still remained overpowered. Surprised it ended up in this game at all. But we could even zoom out further and say the entire SPELL meta is a problem: too many things synergize so unbelievably well with each other....only for spells. This was also a problem carried over from PoE 1. Archmage, shock, AoE, levels, conversion, exposure, mana stacking + int, defenses.....they all naturally fit together to make every single lightning skill build exactly the same. Starting anew....with PoE 2 Last edited by cowmoo275#3095 on Jan 7, 2025, 11:12:51 PM
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" This statement is objectively wrong. There are so many different ways to play a lightning build which I speak from exp bc I've played many and often change things up depending on what play style I want to run. Kinda like having various sports cars and choosing which car I want to drive. None are the same; I even have some that use lighting but convert to either frost or fire or I can run all three; frost, fire, & lightning. What most ppl don't understand about AM is the absurd mana cost it is to run it. You need very specific gear and passive setup for it to work and the gear is a b!tch to acquire. Even then it's still challenging to run bc you have to maintain the work for it while also staying alive. You also have to remember that the few players who are running thru the game looking GODLY are a minority. They are NOT SSF players. So what this really is about is SSF being p!ssed off that they can't compete. I went thru this same bs w/ D3; which is what lead to the AH being shut down. Tbh SSF should stop worrying about what other players can do. They aren't apart of the trade market anyways so why does it matter? |
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" You're right, I should have clarified: every single GOOD lightning build. If you aren't leveraging those mechanics as a lightning spell build....then you are "objectively" doing it wrong. It is likely you are wasting points, wasting gear, and wasting potential. And that's a problem. The extreme, outlying nature of that synergy and what it means to NOT use it and gear/tree for it. Ex: Sure, in PoE 1 you can play a pure lightning build without running Wrath. But that is an objectively poor decision. In PoE 2, not building around archmage is currently an objectively poor decision because of the power imbalance. Starting anew....with PoE 2 Last edited by cowmoo275#3095 on Jan 8, 2025, 7:02:18 AM
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The problem is MoM, Eldritch Battery, AND archmage. Scaling damage in any other way than some broken mechanic like bell or archmage is borderline impossible. Try making a generic crit build. You can't. It's dogshit.
The problem goes even further and almost nothing is worth playing unless it has a buff to equip to make it do double damage, or some other mechanic that just boosts its damage. Playing a warrior is completely meaningless unless you play combos and do literally 100x more damage during the heavy stun by consuming broken armour than you do before that, because the numbers just aren't there. There's far too much reliance on special buffs and combo gameplay and the baseline gameplay is COMPLETELY unplayably weak. |
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"The problem is MoM, Eldritch Battery, AND archmage. Scaling damage in any other way than some broken mechanic like bell or archmage is borderline impossible"
not far from reality, it's a long term issue in poe. how do you balance selfcast build ? ( keep in mind incomming trigger like spell totem and this kind of spell ) and when i say self cast it's whitout trigger at all, no cast on stuff the basic mage archetype , like the quys who throw fireball, or arc, or blizzar in movie, book or some video game. Last edited by laurent67#6296 on Jan 8, 2025, 7:58:29 AM
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" +levels is also extremely problematic because the mod is absolutely mandatory Last edited by JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 on Jan 8, 2025, 8:11:44 AM
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