Archmage is NOT the Problem

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MakaveliPT#7753 wrote:

Archmage is broken, that´s not even a discussion, but man the + levels gotta be one of many of those dumb design choices they choosen for the game, so in PoE 1 basically any wand without + levels was automatically trash, mostly the same for amulets (at least for spellcasters), and instead of them making the other affixes compete with + levels so the itemization could more varied they do exactly the opposite and make + levels go up to +5 on wands for example, now not only wands without + levels are automatically trash, but even anything with less than +4 is trash too, same for amulets etc making itemization completely one dimensional and booring.

that's a real issue, totaly agree.


edit:

i play archmage spark ci-mom-eb, and i begin with to feel "ok" in map (15+) when reach something like 35 div,(mean i can do this) and start to run smooth after 45 div.
so when you speak about nerf, ok, but at what lvl of gear should be the cap for a good feeling in map ? 70 div ? 100? (lol)

atm i feel op, but i have 100+ div gear, so i think it's totaly normal i feel op.

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Brisket5450#4084 wrote:

archmage must have more penalties like increased mana cost of skills. its current power is ok.

Yes. I remove archmage aura and my spark dps goes from 4k to 17k. So basically, archmage is over 400% damage multiplier... for just 100 spirit. How is any spell build supposed to ignore this when on top stacking mama and MoM are even strong defensives...

Currently i'd argue 2% damage AND 2% mana costs per 100mana are enough. 4k mana still increase your damage by 80%, while the mana cost increase forces you to find a balance between how much mana you can stack. So maybe 3k mana and 60% damage/mana cost increase is a sweetspot?

There will still be highend builds doing insane damage, but it will be way more balanced.

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laurent67#6296 wrote:

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MakaveliPT#7753 wrote:

Archmage is broken, that´s not even a discussion, but man the + levels gotta be one of many of those dumb design choices they choosen for the game, so in PoE 1 basically any wand without + levels was automatically trash, mostly the same for amulets (at least for spellcasters), and instead of them making the other affixes compete with + levels so the itemization could more varied they do exactly the opposite and make + levels go up to +5 on wands for example, now not only wands without + levels are automatically trash, but even anything with less than +4 is trash too, same for amulets etc making itemization completely one dimensional and booring.

that's a real issue, totaly agree.


edit:

i play archmage spark ci-mom-eb, and i begin with to feel "ok" in map (15+) when reach something like 35 div,(mean i can do this) and start to run smooth after 45 div.
so when you speak about nerf, ok, but at what lvl of gear should be the cap for a good feeling in map ? 70 div ? 100? (lol)

atm i feel op, but i have 100+ div gear, so i think it's totaly normal i feel op.

Maybe current spark CI MoM shouldnt be as smooth as you want it to be.

What you call smooth is probably killing mobs one or two screens ahead while 8k ES and 4k mana prevent you from getting oneshot.

And i have a 15 divs build that just gets killed by crazy modifiers. The power level is insane if you think about what POE is supposed to be.


And in fact, even nerfing that builds damage by 60+% would make it far superior to 95% of abilities.

I dont like that insane one shot fantasy the game has. Basically defensives are: kill everything before they kill you.

let ggg cook

i could not talk about number, i still no fucking idea how many dps i have .
without pob i could not.

and in game tooltip just enough good to give a basic idea but number is totally wrong.

(but you right, if i remove archmage buff , on tooltip i pass from 55k to 9.9k. i just can say according tooltip, i feel ok in map when reach around 30k and run smooth after 40k )

edit:

for vdd ( cross post)

"Maybe current spark CI MoM shouldnt be as smooth as you want it to be."

yep, that's possible, have to wait what ggg think for this game.

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Nerim#4690 wrote:

Archmage is NOT the problem.

It's A problem though. Archmage + MoM + Stormweaver + plenty of passive nodes gives you everything with just one cheap stat.
Skill levels are a separate thing, affecting every build equally. Actually Archmage helps here too, because the cost scales together with the damage, making skills very expensive to use.

Archmage is still a no brainer, even for non-Stormweavers.

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Junki3JJC#5645 wrote:

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

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Junki3JJC#5645 wrote:

Go play Witchhunter, then come back and reaffirm your comment. Squishy as hell, regardless of any elemental buff. Christ, we have to sacrifice 50% armour/evasion to get Sorcery Ward, which I'm really questioning if it's worth it.

I can't wait for a big nerf on Archmage, Monk etc. - the content of people trying to learn the boss mechanics, rather than just spam a single skill, will be worth it. Sorry but Arbiter etc. should not be taken down in 30s. Everyone needs to learn - properly - rather than just do math to scale damage.

I played with hunter till 87 and dumpstered it - it's a vastly underperforming class.

That doesn't mean that it should be used as a baseline that we nerf other classes down to.

Witch Hunter and everything related to crossbows is in a bad state.


I also do not think that it's that unreasonable for an exceptionally well built character to be able to bypass mechanics on bosses. I do agree that current interactions between some skills are OP but if you have a lvl 95 with 200d worth of gear - you SHOULD be OP.

I'm new to PoE - but everything I heard was "it's hard". And playing WH (also played Infernalist Witch btw - OP because just hide behind minions) - it has been hard.

Watching Archmage, Invoker etc. - that is not hard, I'm sorry but it's not. I agree that it shouldn't be a baseline, but even, objectively, removing my bias with what I've had to play - no, even at 95 (if you have the boss nodes in the tree) it should still be somewhat of a challenge.

I'll say it one more time - spamming a single skill is not a hard game and, from what everyone has told me, is not the point of this game.

Edit: sorry, to add - I did miss your point about gearing. And you're right, to an extent, given that's one of the primary points of any RPG. But the way people are facerolling bosses is still not normal - respectfully. Whilst WH does need a buff (and thanks for acknowledging) - I wouldn't want to just steamroll bosses the way I've seen some builds do it, to be honest. It takes away the accomplishment factor. And some builds (including Archmage) are doing exactly that right now. Just an opinion, we can always agree to disagree,

I absolutely agree that "1 button builds" appear to go against the design philosophy of what PoE2 seemed to be trying to do by creating skill rotations like other MMOs.

That's not to say that 1 button builds should not be possible, but they should not be the top tier performers like Spark is today.

The balancing point that we should strive for is that a build with best in slot items should be able to trivialize end game encounters but mid tier gear should find them extremely challenging. That's not the case today.

Minimal investment into a Stormweaver outperforms everything except for dual herald builds (which is also questionable) and shattering concoction builds (which clearly seem to work beyond the intended power). All other builds are left in the dust, some vastly behind the power curve.


There is also the matter of content that we are expected to clear.

Run a T16 atlas maxed breach and tell me how we are supposed to be able to handle that mob speed and density without the 'op' builds?

While I totally agree that we are currently able to trivialize bosses, a lot of the other end game content scales well beyond the ability of players to handle by the time they encounter it.

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drallcom3#6603 wrote:

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Nerim#4690 wrote:

Archmage is NOT the problem.

It's A problem though. Archmage + MoM + Stormweaver + plenty of passive nodes gives you everything with just one cheap stat.
Skill levels are a separate thing, affecting every build equally. Actually Archmage helps here too, because the cost scales together with the damage, making skills very expensive to use.

Archmage is still a no brainer, even for non-Stormweavers.

Well yeah - it's a no brainer because it's THE ONLY way to scale spell dps besides spell levels.

There are no other options, crit sort of works but nowhere near as strong.

If you want to scale spell DPS, you HAVE to use Archmage.

If I turn it off, it is not possible for me to handle end game content - the DPS just isn't there despite heavy investment into shock magnitude and % damage.


If Archmage did not exist, Stormweaver would not be end game viable without sinking hundreds of divines into the build via jewels, high roll ingenuity, temporalis etc.

I would like to see archmage reworked and instead of gain % damage as extra damage, scale some flat spell dmg like other builds. SO that we can actually benefit from juicy gain % damage nodes on the tree, in the skills gems tab, and more so on a wand.

On archmage wands with gain % damage are the worst you can get, but somehow this is the highest tiered roll, so the more wands you craft the higher chance to get gain % damage, game just thinks it is a super good stat on wand to have.

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GODOFWARSANCHEZ#4574 wrote:

I would like to see archmage reworked and instead of gain % damage as extra damage, scale some flat spell dmg like other builds. SO that we can actually benefit from juicy gain % damage nodes on the tree, in the skills gems tab, and more so on a wand.

On archmage wands with gain % damage are the worst you can get, but somehow this is the highest tiered roll, so the more wands you craft the higher chance to get gain % damage, game just thinks it is a super good stat on wand to have.

This goes down to the whole damage scaling issue that spell casters hit in PoE.

Weapon users can easily get +dmg rings and gloves and slap on ingenuity and literally double their damage.

A spell caster can get the best 35% <element> damage ring and a 90% ingenuity and essentially see a 10% dps boost if that because increased % damage is a very poor substitute for a 1-120 added lightning damage ring for example.

Archmage ends up being the only viable way to do scale damage beyond +levels.

It may indeed be too good, but it's also the only option.

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Karishin#7986 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

most of those ssf content creators could absolutely destroy in trade league tho.


they know what it takes to make builds and they know they are capable of easily putting together those characters in trade. they just think the game should not allow builds beyond a certain level of power.

people like ziz and nugi could just go to softcore trade league, farm 5 mirrors and make any build in the game if they really wanted to.

Lets be real, no streamer is farming mirrors, everything they need will be given to them.

thats just not true. most of them are playing solo self found for a start. ive farmed many mirrors in poe1, ive watched many streamers who farm mirrors, ive never seen a streamer with mirrors who isnt farming them legit. i know what it takes to do it, i can see what theyre doing theyre literally streaming their game.

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NickyRick#1268 wrote:

They get equipment from fans, and they are already suspected of always dropping only rare currency items.

mos of them are playing in ssf, ssfhc even, because theyre so good at the game that playing in softcore trade is pointless for them. how are they getting equipment from fans in ssfhc?

you can watch their streams and clearly see they dont get more currency or better rng than a normal player. theyre just really good at the game and they play it 10-14 hours a day.




come on guys, the anti streamer tin foils and resentment isnt necessary. you guys are kidding yourselves.