Archmage is NOT the Problem

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Polantaris#1920 wrote:

Honestly, the better exercise is to discuss what build can make better use of 100 Spirit, with any collection of overall build value. The raw bonus of 5% additional damage as Lightning Damage per 100 Mana on everything you do is an incredible bonus. I find it hard to believe there's a better expenditure of 100 Spirit in the game. The more valuable your gear becomes (the higher overall cost of your build), the more value this buff has because it's not raw damage, it's percent damage based on your existing final damage. Its return on investment increases as you get more powerful.

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Three9#5631 wrote:

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

Just to entertain your statement let's do an experiment with a random spell and 5K mana pool (that is fairly easy to reach with all the multipliers on the tree and such)

A lvl 20 fully quality Archmage does give you 400% of ANY given spell damage as extra lightning damage. So JUST by stacking mana (that is also your defense through MoM) you multiply your damage by 5 BEFORE any other multipliers apply. How is that behaviour not problematic?

do you even realize how much investment u need to get to the point u can do a 5k mana swap, and have enough regen for 30m+ fights with spark. You might be able to do a boss killer, and change setup for spark mapping, and with 5k mana and no ES if you're going full glass spark mapping will still get u killed from time to time. You make it sound as if it's giving you everything with no tradeoffs, feel free to show how broken it is streaming from lvl 1 to 97 starting with no currency

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Lixy#2668 wrote:

That sounds more like a limitation of the games design. Casters don't have access to Heralds in this, unlike PoE1, and there aren't any other offensive Spirit uses other than Elemental Conflux, and we all know how much people fucking love pendulum buffs.

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Polantaris#1920 wrote:

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Three9#5631 wrote:

You believe that you can't build around solely CoF and maybe one more dmg spirit gem (60) to justify the utility and dmg it offers over archmage at around what budget and level? And what about progression later going archmage and one 60 spi, or builds not using archmage but for example choir of the storm to trigger cast on gems.

In short what about other complexities other than comparing the two to each other it seems there's a lot more to it before you can justify changes?

Honestly, the better exercise is to discuss what build can make better use of 100 Spirit, with any collection of overall build value. The raw bonus of 5% additional damage as Lightning Damage per 100 Mana on everything you do is an incredible bonus. I find it hard to believe there's a better expenditure of 100 Spirit in the game. The more valuable your gear becomes (the higher overall cost of your build), the more value this buff has because it's not raw damage, it's percent damage based on your existing final damage. Its return on investment increases as you get more powerful.

This isn't a "Cast on Freeze is worse," debate. This is a, "Literally nothing compares to the return on investment," debate. If I can spare 100 Spirit, I have absolutely no reason to use it on something other than Archmage.

If there is no build that can spend 100 Spirit more wisely on a Sorceress, then it becomes a mandatory usage of 100 Spirit which becomes antithesis to the core of the game.

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

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Three9#5631 wrote:

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

Just to entertain your statement let's do an experiment with a random spell and 5K mana pool (that is fairly easy to reach with all the multipliers on the tree and such)

A lvl 20 fully quality Archmage does give you 400% of ANY given spell damage as extra lightning damage. So JUST by stacking mana (that is also your defense through MoM) you multiply your damage by 5 BEFORE any other multipliers apply. How is that behaviour not problematic?

do you even realize how much investment u need to get to the point u can do a 5k mana swap, and have enough regen for 30m+ fights with spark. You might be able to do a boss killer, and change setup for spark mapping, and with 5k mana and no ES if you're going full glass spark mapping will still get u killed from time to time. You make it sound as if it's giving you everything with no tradeoffs, feel free to show how broken it is streaming from lvl 1 to 97 starting with no currency

I am sorry to break it to you, but the issue with Archmage does NOT exist to this extreme extend in HC as you lose your character and all the progression on it IF you die, but you aren't restricted by such things in SC and can afford to rip once every 30 ish maps. You get pretty much free damage and scaling your defense with MoM and offence with Archmage is an issue. Either of them need to change to dampen the issue and with Stormweaver, THE Archmage ascendancy you get mana scaling for free and negate the downside of MoM completely

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

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Three9#5631 wrote:

I am sorry to break it to you, but the issue with Archmage does NOT exist to this extreme extend in HC as you lose your character and all the progression on it IF you die, but you aren't restricted by such things in SC and can afford to rip once every 30 ish maps. You get pretty much free damage and scaling your defense with MoM and offence with Archmage is an issue. Either of them need to change to dampen the issue and with Stormweaver, THE Archmage ascendancy you get mana scaling for free and negate the downside of MoM completely

Why would you feel sorry for trying to inform someone, unless you're trying to put someone down to elevate yourself?

I mentioned before that its possible to make a decent mapper, or bosser with reasonably low currency 10-20d but you can't have both at the same time, the builds you see on tiktok and youtube have a lot more invested, and at that type of currency what character power do you think should be reasonable? Also what you're describing is nothing new since it's in poe1. I think glass cannon builds will continue to exist

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

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Three9#5631 wrote:

I am sorry to break it to you, but the issue with Archmage does NOT exist to this extreme extend in HC as you lose your character and all the progression on it IF you die, but you aren't restricted by such things in SC and can afford to rip once every 30 ish maps. You get pretty much free damage and scaling your defense with MoM and offence with Archmage is an issue. Either of them need to change to dampen the issue and with Stormweaver, THE Archmage ascendancy you get mana scaling for free and negate the downside of MoM completely

Why would you feel sorry for trying to inform someone, unless you're trying to put someone down to elevate yourself?

I mentioned before that its possible to make a decent mapper, or bosser with reasonably low currency 10-20d but you can't have both at the same time, the builds you see on tiktok and youtube have a lot more invested, and at that type of currency what character power do you think should be reasonable? Also what you're describing is nothing new since it's in poe1. I think glass cannon builds will continue to exist

It is a saying. I know that NOW the gear is multiple div, but on paper it is pretty accessible gear and 4-5K mana is accessible via Eldrich Battery

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Three9#5631 wrote:

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

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Three9#5631 wrote:

Why would you feel sorry for trying to inform someone, unless you're trying to put someone down to elevate yourself?

I mentioned before that its possible to make a decent mapper, or bosser with reasonably low currency 10-20d but you can't have both at the same time, the builds you see on tiktok and youtube have a lot more invested, and at that type of currency what character power do you think should be reasonable? Also what you're describing is nothing new since it's in poe1. I think glass cannon builds will continue to exist

It is a saying. I know that NOW the gear is multiple div, but on paper it is pretty accessible gear and 4-5K mana is accessible via Eldrich Battery

When you say multiple divs how many? I'm at about 20d investment with t10-11 on every piece except wand and amulet on 3.4k with eldrich battery

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Omegasybers#0029 wrote:

As I can't see what you are building and how your passive tree looks I don't know, but as you can pretty comfortably get to 800-1K ES from your body armour alone...