How is this a looter ARPG when you NEVER LOOT ANYTHING!?!?!?!?
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The bickering back and forth... discuss the issues...
Hold my beer, TLDR: The problem is not the loot the problem is your ego and that RNG is RNG and math is soul crushing. Before you read:
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If you decide to read this post I want to worn the reader that you are about to read my take on the game and how it relates to this thread. It will have a few sections. These sections are: During the campaign, Trading online, Crafting with a sub section for a case study on crossbows, Problems with increasing total item loot, and a discussion. I spent about 2 hours writing it in this little screen. I didn't have the effort required to make a complete dissertation.
I have a masters of science with background in psychology, clinical studies, and have 6 years of experience working with every day, 80 people a week, helping people deal with mental health problems this is reflected in the original intent of writing this in the first place. I could have spent probably 10 hours writing about this subject. I digress. Usually the pay off for these post are very low because some troll will completely miss the point and reply quoting my text and attack me specifically and not the issues presented in the feedback section of an online video game I like to play. Also everything presented in the second person is a projection of my own experiences with the game. "You didn't learn anything" translates to "I didn't learn anything." and is a symptom of my ego. It is not meant to attack the reader. Total disclosure, I'm trading for items online, I'm using a maxroll meta build, and I have friends that can do 200k dps that carry me through content I have no business playing. This is a reflection on my own problems with wanting to "beat the game". I think many people can relate. The game isn't supposed to be beat in a week. (define "beat the game" for yourself) During the campaign:
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Take a hard boss from the campaign like viper. You fight her for the first time and die. Did you keep trying? Did you learn not to stand in fire? Did you learn dodging? How many times did you play her before you A. figured you needed better gear. or B. asked for help.
Now, how easy is it to say in general chat, "can anyone help me with viper?" and someone messages you and kills the boss in two seconds... You didn't learn anything, you didn't learn how to gear up. You didn't know how to move points around in passives to move past the boss (because you are following a guide on maxroll). Now you are ahead of where you should be because you asked for help from other players. and soon enough you run into hard content again. Trading online:
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Then you go online and trade for an item, an item that is exceedingly rare mathematically for you to EVER drop
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(drops include vendor items, gambling, and slamming orbs)
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Whenever you do this you are leveraging the drops across ALL players currently playing the game. This is the best way to circumvent RNG. (and that is the problem id argue)
Then you put your toon into even harder content for you to play missing the lesson to slow down and magic find upgrades for yourself in lower easier content.
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Or missing the lesson that maybe you don't need to play the next level of content.
To what end? The end game is just a logarithmic curve that requires logarithmic improvements to your toon. There is no cake at the end of the game. Crafting:
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One way to improve this would be to allow the player to craft "good enough" maybe 5-10 ilvl lower then current level mods and select, to some degree not total control, of the mods you want.
Case study:
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Take crossbows. You need physical% and adds physical damage to attacks. You also need both of those to be as high as possible. What are the odds that you will drop this white base and slam it up to these two mods to a magic item.
The odds are very low. Probably 300-400 tries to have a confidence of 62% that you will get an item (with those two mods)
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but it doesn't mean those two stats will be higher percentile wise than the gear you have on (probably bought for 1 ex on trade).
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(source: https://www.craftofexile.com/ take a white base and use orbs to craft in this example we take a bombard crossbow and we are aiming for those two mods. It takes 334 orbs from a white item to %physical and adds x-x physical damage)
This is a symptom to a problem and the problem is RNG without the ability to craft meager upgrades for yourself. (not god tier items) What is the solution and is there even a problem? and > This < is where we should be suggesting improvements. not telling frustrated players to get gud. The solution is not to increase exalted or div drops. or to increase *as a percentage increase in the total amount of loot*. It needs a more nuanced solution. Problem with increasing loot drops:
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If loot (items not currency) were increased by 1000% you go from 4-5 items dropping of a rare monster to 5000 items. What is the likelihood that out of those 5000 items they are even the base item you need to start rolling for stats you want? With so many different possibilities the probability to drop that crossbow (base) is increased certainly (and im not doing the math here) so now you find 43 crossbows. And you need to identify each one to have a 1/300 chance of finding one with the two mods you want. So kill 10 rares and you have a 63% chance to drop that crossbow with the two stats you want. BUT they also have to go through another layer of RNG and that is the tier for mods. The problem isn't fixed with more item drops. You are far more likely to find a someone else a decent item with 5000 items dropping off the rare monster. And that is the problem, rare loot needs high item level. High item level needs higher character level. so on and so forth. (higher character level needs better gear to progress)
Sidebar:
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Every time you interact with the trade site to boost your toon, you are lowering your future enjoyment with drops simply because of math. How bored would you get if while at max level a new, better item, dropped for your specific toon once a week? After 4-5 weeks your toon, with this mathematically gifted drops, would be so powerful you could kill every boss at every difficulty in all content.
Now what?
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Again this video goes much further into it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGlwgB9l1Lw and if you watched it would have saved me effort writing this essay. Discussion:
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If the loot was tuned differently, or if there was a way to craft items for yourself. Some how, and that was balanced around 3 months of play time per league then you'd have an ideal system that didn't feel so soul crushing because you'd be improving your toon slowly, but at a (some what) Un*predictable rate to reward players. (psychology for making the game more addicting as unpredictable rewards are more addicting).
Because the trade site exist and because you can ask for help from other players total progression depends on the progression of the entire population. This feels bad because you* aren't the one progressing. You are finding items for others to help them progress. I think that is the entire design and it is a feature not a bug. I think it is close to where they want it, but still think it would be a bit of a relief to have a way to improve specifically your own toon without asking for others and if that was in sub optimal way than the best gear to give the hardcore players something to go after. Closing thoughts:
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just throwing it out there but what if there was a way to modify what items drop for yourself, like a setting or a boss fight that allowed you to increase the odds that if weapons drop they are related to your toon. Maybe "omen of crossbow: while this item is in your inventory you are far more likely to drop cross bows for weapons than not (dont tell us what the rate is or do and make that stat RNG and Vaalable) loot 2.0 from d3? If you been playing ARPG since 1997 these are all the same problems we have had before and they have solutions. What we need are modern solutions that are needed in the modern world because "end game" exists.
After you beat the last boss in diablo 1 you did it you won! now what? you go outside or something. That is bad for retention and so game developers added "end game" if you beat the last act on cruel you've already beat the game twice now. Define what you think is the end for you or you will have to face math, soul crushing RNG, and you simply cannot get around it in a reasonable amount of time (e.g before you die), without relying on other players. What is your end goal. What is my end goal? Why did i write this? Last edited by rocksmann#5310 on Jan 7, 2025, 11:39:07 AM
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" It's a recipe for success, however. If you look at game like WoW which has been #1 MMO on the market for ages, Blizzard didn't invent much themselves. They looked at competitors, took things that worked and implemented them (even D4 took inspiration from LE's crafting with its tempering system). Over and over. Innovation is risky and it doesn't always pay off. Using working solutions is usually better. PoE 2 went the opposite direction. They took all the bad things that PoE 1 had and doubled down on them. The only good sides of the game is slow campaign gameplay and good visuals/sound. Endgame is a mess, build diversity is laughable, passive tree is boring and weak (compared to PoE 1), trials are universally hated, 1-portal-per-map is questionable decision for SC players and the list goes on. |
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" I'm not white knighting, I merely add my opinion to the discussion. What I do besides that, is playing the game, and posting feedback and bug reports in a constructive and respectful tone. " Yes. Nobody paid for the game, because the game is going to be free. We paid for the ability to try it before it is fully released. Something only available to a select few is called a privilege. |
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" I'm not sure what you're saying. That i'm supposed to be NOT playing the class i want to play if i don't want to end up being stuck, and if i do play the class i want to play it's my problem and the game is fine? I HAVE to play some class i don't want to play because "loot is fine" as long as you don't mind not having fun? |
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" You want to buy a RTX 4090 but so happens the current economy is really bad and need some fixing and it will be fixed sooner than later so the salary and income can be decent enough for you to get it without much trouble. Do you ask someone to fix your problem straightaway to get what you want or if you really need the RTX 4090, do you go work an extra job or project even though it is inconvenient and something that you might not like to get the Graphics card you need. It is early access with a ton of problem, which part of the early access and the game is incomplete that you are unsure of. You think I like playing a monk. I want to play a warrior. I am playing a boring build to farm the items I need on a warrior. You don't like playing a class that is current meta and easier to play in order to farm items for your other character. Well so be it. Continue making essays like everyone else in this forum. There are genuine feed backs that will help GGG make a better game and fix problems. And there are some which are just entitled rants. :) Rampage IGN : Cool_Hamster Standard IGN : Hamsterbaby Standard IGN : HamsterMfer Please do not hesitate to contact me in game if you have posted or offered on my items. Regards Last edited by chosk80#3649 on Jan 8, 2025, 7:43:45 PM
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Long time PoE 1 player. Just popping in to say that the game is boring as hell due to the absolute lack of loot. They "improved" it, but it's still just incredibly boring.
I'm still chugging through my first playthrough because I have other things to do and other games to play and I'm finding that I'm playing PoE2 less and less as time goes on. I'm still using a legendary chest from Lv. 5 and I'm just shy of Lv. 50. The only recent good gear I've gotten has been by buying white items from vendors and using crafting items to luck out on getting something good. This feels like garbage because when I roll useless affixes I'm left with less gold and currency and I just kinda feel like I was robbed by the game. The last three legendary drops were for completely different classes/builds and got immediately tossed into the stash where they'll probably never be seen again. I'm still using a staff from about 20 levels ago which feels extra crappy because the spell that it comes with is several levels lower than my regular ones. If I pop over to Grim Dawn, Diablo 2, or Last Epoch? I feel like I'm actually progressing and finding and doing new and interesting things. Last edited by Sticky_Pennies#0406 on Jan 8, 2025, 8:46:37 PM
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