POE 2 loses it's identity/face on end-game

i think cast on gems are great and i dont rly want to use using more than 3 main skills. but that doesnt mean the game has to turn into 1 click kills the entire screen and you are constantly swarmed by fast monsters.



theres different playstyles in the game, if u dont like minions dont play minions. i played poe1 for 1000s of hours and never had a minion build.


if you want an active style build then make an active build, if you want a build with lots of skill synergises then play those builds. if you want your gameplay to be super considered play hardcore.



the gam can never be allowed to become this again

https://youtu.be/X6xZd4xGfyY?t=31


this is idiocy. but the game can be fun and have triggers, lots of things going on and going off etc. that doesnt mean gameplay cant still be there, that doesnt mean the entire screen has to die every time you press a button.

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

Are we both talking about juiced t15 maps? Because yes, during campaign it was quite easy. But after I got to maps their survivability and damage output lowers significaly.

Juiced? Not really. I couldn't be bothered to play that until that point. Whatever random t13-t15 yellow maps? Yes. Not sure how your minions are so weak since I have 0 investment in their life and they were doing very fine. Gem levels alone are making them ridiculously tanky and you can get WAY too much of those in PoE2 compared to PoE1.

On very rare occasions they would die... and even if they did you don't really do anything in that time frame other then dodge and run away. There's quite literally nothing you can do without them. That doesn't make for good gameplay either mind you.

But even if I were only in campaign and supposedly in the endgame things were fine... that would still be BAD. Everything till the very top of the endgame is still part of the game. It's like that classic excuse where a lot of fans of different games say "wait till the endgame, it gets good in the endgame I promise". WHO CARES if that even were the case? The whole game needs to be a good and challenging experience.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

if you want an active style build then make an active build, if you want a build with lots of skill synergises then play those builds. if you want your gameplay to be super considered play hardcore.

GGG explicid promoted and stated they WANT combos to be much more powerfull then simple 1 click builds.

Act 1-3 that worked very well!

For my Monk it was:
- Shattering Palm for packs or Hand of Chaula + Mark + Curse for harder enemys
- drob Bell
- any attack like Ice Strike
- some times use even Killing Palm to freez a boss and get some distance

It felt GREAT!

Until the moment I realized all and absolut ALL is about luck & gambling in this game :(. even the Pinacle bosses.

For real who ever it is at GGG, get help with your gambling addiction or PoE 2 might end with FSK 18 and fall under the children-addiction-protection laws in Germany/Europ!!

Randomness and variation is good for Hack&Slay ... but RANDOM GAMBLING ONLY is not!

And "endgame" is the same or even faster then PoE 1.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

"

Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

Are we both talking about juiced t15 maps? Because yes, during campaign it was quite easy. But after I got to maps their survivability and damage output lowers significaly.

Juiced? Not really. I couldn't be bothered to play that until that point. Whatever random t13-t15 yellow maps? Yes. Not sure how your minions are so weak since I have 0 investment in their life and they were doing very fine. Gem levels alone are making them ridiculously tanky and you can get WAY too much of those in PoE2 compared to PoE1.

On very rare occasions they would die... and even if they did you don't really do anything in that time frame other then dodge and run away. There's quite literally nothing you can do without them. That doesn't make for good gameplay either mind you.

But even if I were only in campaign and supposedly in the endgame things were fine... that would still be BAD. Everything till the very top of the endgame is still part of the game. It's like that classic excuse where a lot of fans of different games say "wait till the endgame, it gets good in the endgame I promise". WHO CARES if that even were the case? The whole game needs to be a good and challenging experience.

And which minions did you use may I ask?

"

Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

theres different playstyles in the game, if u dont like minions dont play minions. i played poe1 for 1000s of hours and never had a minion build.

This is one thing I really really hate about the community, and that is the perception of what minions are through the lens of what they've always been in these games or PoE1.

EVERYONE associates minions with a passive playstyle and thus most people that supposedly like minions don't even really like minions... they just like that PASSIVE PLAYSTYLE.

I LOVE minions but they are NOT fun to play because of that passiveness. I love how cool Reavers look. I LOVE the idea of capturing different powerful enemies and making them my own and using their abilities on command MYSELF.

It definitely feels like there is a inconsistent "vision" from early to mid and to endgame. Like it was made by three companies and stapled together.

If you want me rolling, make us roll to the end. I haven't even pressed the roll button for days, I would play the same without a space bar. More like the monsters need a roll button so I don't explode the whole screen every time.

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

end game has to reflect the campaign gameplay as that what is being marketed, current endgame is rather boring zoom zoom kill everything in 1 shot. farming never matters, all drop rates can be adjusted to suit the targeted gameplay.

Since the campaign loving group hates lots of drops, increasing drops will also upset them.

Source: I made it up

A game is something with choices, where making the right choice matters.

Higher tier mapping is mostly about getting a build that kills the whole screen instantly, otherwise they swarm you and you die. All the choices are in build design, not gameplay.

I used tons of different skills on my cold monk during the campaign, handling different situations with different abilities... and then I got to the mapping phase, where I run both heralds and all I press is ice-strike to kill screen and then periodically refresh charged staff.... very rarely drop a bell. I have flicker in the build but don't use it as it kills me too often. And that's about 2-3x more skills than my sorc. ZzzzZZZzzz Boring.

Jonathan said, "you'll be able to play one button builds but they wont be optimal"... though from his other comments it seems like Jonathan only play tests the campaign.

Maybe if there were boss-only maps, and those bosses were mechanics multi-skill intensive... those of us who want non-braindead gameplay could fight only bosses.. (but they would have to nerf builds or buff bosses so they were not 10 second fights)

Though it feels like more of a fundamental problem in enemy and skills design. The enemies are too fast for multi-skill combos, and individual skills lose expression during character progression. I hope they *try* to improve this, but so far i've not heard a single hint that this is something they care about.

"

Let me guess...you don't main Jungle in League of Legends. And your favorite/best SC2 race is Protoss.

Come on. I have played 7000 hours of League of Legends, I have mained *everything* at one time or another. First was jungle, then mid, then jungle, then top, then jungle, then back to mid... but I play everything. Best at mid. My favorite/best race in SC2 was Zerg. I only play toss (or random) in 2v2, as Zerg in 2v2 can be tough.. but I played more 1v1.

+1 Agreed.

Campaign and especially Act 1 feels amazing and exactly as marketed.
Methodical, tactical, engaging.
I absolutely LOVED my first 10-20 hours of the game.

Endgame is this horrible PoE 1 clone with dopamine RUSH RUSH LOOT LOOT LOOT BOOM SKIP RUSH.
I don't like it. It's too fast, button mashing whole screen explode again.

The campaign is designed to be slow and methodical, but endgame is obviously meant for blasting. And I don't mean some people have found builds that clear the whole screen; I mean GGG designed it for blasting.

Else how could you explain the huge maps with lots of fast monsters? Timed encounters? Tight layouts, where you can barely move. A plethora of on-death effects & ground effects? It requires 300 frags for one attempt at endgame bosses - slow & methodical ain't gonna farm those in a reasonable time. The numbers are set for blasting.

How would a player even 'tactically' play eg. a Ritual, where 50% of the space is consumed by environmental collision objects and the other 50% contains 200 monsters body-blocking you while a tornado is giving you a haircut? :))


I don't even know how I'm gonna deal damage & survive in the next league, when GGG nerfs heralds, grim feast, evasion...


I like how the game plays in the campaign. But for the endgame to be also toned down in speed, GGG would need to cut the atlas node density in half, shrink all the maps, buff the drop rates of everything by 500% and severely re-design league content.