GGG - Stand true to what you said about player feedback

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Spartiicus#0215 wrote:

I don't think most players hate the difficulty. They hate:

Time wasting mechanics: 10% XP loss on death, low loot drops
Unfair mechanics: Invisible on death effects, un-telegraphed one shot enemy attacks, on death effects in general
Content locked behind challenges impossible for some builds: Trials
Insane trade system: which would be a nonissue with good drops
No deterministic crafting: which would be a nonissue with good drops

Slow and difficult would be fine if the slowness and difficulty was organic and not artificially inflated with nonsense mechanics designed to frustrate players.

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Rafkin4#7914 wrote:

Find ways to make the game enjoyable so the difficulty is irrelevant.

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

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Rafkin4#7914 wrote:

Find ways to make the game enjoyable so the difficulty is irrelevant.

Difficult IS the part that is enjoyable. Solving problems and overcoming obstacles IS the fun part.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

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Rafkin4#7914 wrote:

Find ways to make the game enjoyable so the difficulty is irrelevant.

Difficult IS the part that is enjoyable. Solving problems and overcoming obstacles IS the fun part.

Yes, for some people. They enjoy really difficult games.

Which makes sense why there should be a difficulty option. For those that want a difficult game, and then for those that want to relax while gaming.

Or, the game should be tuned to appeal to the most players it can. Offering decently difficult content for all, but not over the top. Then everyone can enjoy it.

Right now, PoE is only tuned for the very top end of players, in requirement of time, and 'difficulty'. Which makes it very unappealing to the masses.

People simply don't like spending hundreds of hours in games, because there's mechanics in it, that add hundreds of hours of time to it.

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sekushiiandee#4336 wrote:

your opinions are valid but one thing rubbed me the wrong way... if youre referring to diablo 2 as your standing point to the current development and complexity of the game industry now....its a little silly to me


back then there wasn't really a true feedback forum or outlet for diablo 2

back then internet was so slow and limited, people didnt wanna waste time trying to complain about waiting this time

back then there were literally like....3 decent online multiplayer games

back then the games were actually slow, thought out, not nerfed to the ground, and fun

back then if you didnt play the it games, you werent cool (junior high, HS, college)

its not like now where we literally have 100+ mmos to play, thousands of other games to play


these problems and issues are unique to poe2 (and 1) specifically

trying to compare how a company back 30 years ago did things in a dry landscape for gaming doesnt drive your point






regarding the game.....the only part of the this that has been slow and deliberate has just been campaign. end game is nothing slow and deliberate at all


also the difficulty is fine....the problem is when you add difficulty without a way to learn....thats BS to me

endgame mechanic is essentially just straight difficulty without opportunities to learn from your mistakes

im not trying to play a hardcore mechanic and one and done. im trying to learn your game so i can be better. you dont give me the opportunity to do that if you have me farm for days to get keystone fragments to die and then have to farm for days to get those fragments again



even d2 mods like brother laz and median XL were better fleshed out in their challenges and rewards than this game

and theres still powercreep in this game

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

Focus on problems, not suggestions.

Then remember that some problems are non issues.

When Diablo 2 came out before hell mode was solved, if the developers listened to what people would have said we would not have a game still having lobbies immediately fill up weeks into ladder reset 20 years later. It seemed impossible, it seemed like the developers released a troll game mode that was never meant to be beat. It was solved.

You said 100 on ruthless PoE1 would not be reached, we reached it last league.

When PoE came out, you guys had the right idea. Starting perandus/prophecy, league after league after league you kept giving too much power and speed creep by addressing the problem of "we feel weak" in the wrong way.

Stand true to your vision, there is a happy middle ground here (such as tutorials on how to get resistances, and tweaks to positioning/nodes on the tree)

This game may seem hard, but it absolutely gives you the tools you need to succeed. People want to skip the campaign, the campaign is bloody brilliant, the ascendancy trials are brilliant, nothing but glowing feedback across my guild (who is nothing but D2 and PoE vets having zero issues with the game that are non-technical like crashes, all level 85+ or in maps/waystones).

We are all long time supporters and believe you have a chance to make a game that targets us hardcore ARPG players without needing to make a Ruthless GSF like you did for PoE1.

PoE1 has the extreme zoom power fantasy skip-the-campaign style game. Nerfing Malachai on release made me really upset, I don't even wear my Awakening shirt anymore.

The new ascendancies are very well done, only small rebalances needed on some underwhelming ones and nerfs to overperforming ones. Again, player power being earned is extremely gratifying. Some are a small adjustment from feeling good.

Keep the combat engaging and challenging, and add small rebalances to skills/trees.

One of the things my guild is most worried about is the extreme fun we had reaching the limited endgame will be lost after waves of buffs and power creep like PoE1. Campaign is a rite of passage, and it's earned not given. It was this way in D2, it used to be this way in PoE1, and it is the way to keep us ARPG players engaged PoE2. Frankly, if the game released in its current state, we would still play it over anything else.

You made a fantastic campaign and game, stay true to the vision. There are many players who aren't making forum posts and instead actually playing the game.

PoE2 is amazing. Many of our guild mates who are far in the game are loving it. This is a good middle ground between what Ruthless wanted to be and a true ARPG. Please don't gut and kill PoE2 to cater to the base you are ALREADY pleasing with PoE1, that you alienated for 5-6 years of powercreep.

It would be an absolute shame for you to double back on your wise decision to make a different game then just make it a reskinned PoE1. I have already clocked in 300 hours on PoE2 -- keep it slow and deliberate, adjust the endgame zoom.

Signed, guild and social circle of longtime lifetime supporters of PoE, D2, and other awesome ARPGs.

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SkyPrince30#4110 wrote:

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

Focus on problems, not suggestions.

Then remember that some problems are non issues.

When Diablo 2 came out before hell mode was solved, if the developers listened to what people would have said we would not have a game still having lobbies immediately fill up weeks into ladder reset 20 years later. It seemed impossible, it seemed like the developers released a troll game mode that was never meant to be beat. It was solved.

You said 100 on ruthless PoE1 would not be reached, we reached it last league.

When PoE came out, you guys had the right idea. Starting perandus/prophecy, league after league after league you kept giving too much power and speed creep by addressing the problem of "we feel weak" in the wrong way.

Stand true to your vision, there is a happy middle ground here (such as tutorials on how to get resistances, and tweaks to positioning/nodes on the tree)

This game may seem hard, but it absolutely gives you the tools you need to succeed. People want to skip the campaign, the campaign is bloody brilliant, the ascendancy trials are brilliant, nothing but glowing feedback across my guild (who is nothing but D2 and PoE vets having zero issues with the game that are non-technical like crashes, all level 85+ or in maps/waystones).

We are all long time supporters and believe you have a chance to make a game that targets us hardcore ARPG players without needing to make a Ruthless GSF like you did for PoE1.

PoE1 has the extreme zoom power fantasy skip-the-campaign style game. Nerfing Malachai on release made me really upset, I don't even wear my Awakening shirt anymore.

The new ascendancies are very well done, only small rebalances needed on some underwhelming ones and nerfs to overperforming ones. Again, player power being earned is extremely gratifying. Some are a small adjustment from feeling good.

Keep the combat engaging and challenging, and add small rebalances to skills/trees.

One of the things my guild is most worried about is the extreme fun we had reaching the limited endgame will be lost after waves of buffs and power creep like PoE1. Campaign is a rite of passage, and it's earned not given. It was this way in D2, it used to be this way in PoE1, and it is the way to keep us ARPG players engaged PoE2. Frankly, if the game released in its current state, we would still play it over anything else.

You made a fantastic campaign and game, stay true to the vision. There are many players who aren't making forum posts and instead actually playing the game.

PoE2 is amazing. Many of our guild mates who are far in the game are loving it. This is a good middle ground between what Ruthless wanted to be and a true ARPG. Please don't gut and kill PoE2 to cater to the base you are ALREADY pleasing with PoE1, that you alienated for 5-6 years of powercreep.

It would be an absolute shame for you to double back on your wise decision to make a different game then just make it a reskinned PoE1. I have already clocked in 300 hours on PoE2 -- keep it slow and deliberate, adjust the endgame zoom.

Signed, guild and social circle of longtime lifetime supporters of PoE, D2, and other awesome ARPGs.

I feel like this is the only person GGG listens to. Which would be fine, except they kind of told people they were trying to expand. I don't mind GGG serving any particular group of gamer, just don't pretend like you're trying to serve someone else.

Also, it absolutely is not a happy middle by any stretch. I put literally a full-time job's worth of time into this thing, and I still felt weak. That is not casual. If I'm feeling weak after all that time, it's either bad game design or design for a niche base.

Make whatever you want to make, just don't pretend like it's accessible.

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

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spardaknightz#4852 wrote:

Man o man your lvl 60? You finished the tutorial. Let us know if your opinion changes on your 3rd and 4th ascension trials, but at your current rate the season will be over before you fight you find your first citadel and get the pleasure of dieing on it only to find out you get 1 try. If they want the same campaign pace the entire endgame loot, drop rate and mechanics will all need to be massively rebalance. Im not against it. But if it is going to be slower we need the items that drop to be rare and actually have good stats. Right now 99% of the item's that drop are all trash and any upgrade for me costs several divine and im just talking about non uniques like rares with 4 decently rolled high stats. The trials are also not tuned in a way that makes you feel like you strategized and overcame some big obstacle's. They all feel like the biggest determining factor is luck and then later it is based off killing everything before it touches you.

You didn't even read the post.
I am endgame 350+ hours now. Fully ascended. I did 4th ascension solo on an earthshatter titan and on all my other chars. It's fine.

Did you even bother checking my profile