GGG - Stand true to what you said about player feedback

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

The blatant disregard for the campaign GGG put god knows how many hours into by "veterans" and "supporters" is saddening.

And yes, of course I understand that the reason they complain about "difficulty" isn't that it's difficult per se, but that they have to engage with it more than just skipping it in the first place.

They don't even want the game. They're complaining about not being able to skip half of it, and no-backbone-GGG decided to give in.

Oh their campaign where they enticed PoE1 players into PoE2 with MTX being brought over? Or how about the campaign of letting supporters in? How about the multiple years worth of GGG telling PoE1 players that it would be a continuation of PoE1 (being equated to POE1 4.0) only to switch course near the end? Hell the entire idea of it having souls-like influence is very new to the over all campaign.

I want a difficult game, I however want the difficulty curve to be appropriate. Easy at first and gradually increasing through the campaign. However, to have an accurate difficulty curve there has to be a way for player to meet the base gear without hours of farming or getting lucky. There are multiple ways to do this but GGG, who seem to want to make the genre different by evolving it, are sticking to the archaic approach that all loot, even crafting loot must be rng based with minimal if any player influence so the only options left are either more drops or more consistent quality of drops.

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Stryfer#0953 wrote:

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

I trust them too, but I am anxious. If you repeat the difference before 0.1.0c loot 2 or 3 more times, we are literally at 7+ years of PoE1 power/zoom/loot creep in one or two weekends of GGG folding to a loud minority.

The latest patch is already insane. Try a new char, act 1 is really quick with an easy boss fight, watch how much loot you get especially from rares.

Yeah, I don't get how people are still saying there's no difference in drops. I thought I was crazy! I went from fighting every boss on pins and needles to ignoring more than half the mechanics without dying once.

The unlucky protection was a great idea and probably all that should've been done for early game drops. Don't know what the endgame is like, though.

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

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Stryfer#0953 wrote:

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

I trust them too, but I am anxious. If you repeat the difference before 0.1.0c loot 2 or 3 more times, we are literally at 7+ years of PoE1 power/zoom/loot creep in one or two weekends of GGG folding to a loud minority.

The latest patch is already insane. Try a new char, act 1 is really quick with an easy boss fight, watch how much loot you get especially from rares.

Yeah, I don't get how people are still saying there's no difference in drops. I thought I was crazy! I went from fighting every boss on pins and needles to ignoring more than half the mechanics without dying once.

The unlucky protection was a great idea and probably all that should've been done for early game drops. Don't know what the endgame is like, though.

Endgame is basically PoE1 fiesta. It's gross. I've clocked in 300 hours now and gotten many chars to endgame and done whatever the game has to offer. The best experience is making new characters atm. It's already too speed and power crept in the endgame.

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Z3Ngg#1832 wrote:

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of the OP, I disagree with some of the conclusions.

The campaign is not the game. The campaign serves as a story driven tutorial for the the actual game, which is the endgame. This is the case for both PoE1 and PoE2. The PoE2 campaign is pretty fun, at least for the first few playthroughs. How much fun is it going to be the fifth time? How about the tenth time? The twentieth? I'm fairly sure most people would agree that it won't be much fun at that point because now it's just a barrier between you and the actual game. If it's too long, which I think it is at the moment, it could potentially drive people away in future leagues.

I think the current difficulty of PoE2 is fine. It could be tuned a bit in the campaign for a better curve, and the endgame bosses probably need tuning up, but generally it's fine. PoE2 should be challenging because challenging is fun.

Personally, the biggest issue I have, and I think many others may have, is that systems in the current iteration of PoE2 are bad. They are tedious, shallow and unrewarding. By unrewarding I'm not talking about loot, i'm talking about how fun they are to interact with.

The Atlas, mapping (specifically layouts) and crafting are examples of core systems that are particularly frustrating. Which is worrying.

With that said, PoE2 is a fine game, maybe even 2nd best in the market after PoE1. I have no doubt PoE2 will be a great game in a few years, but it will take significant time and effort to correct the current issues, in my opinion.

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

Focus on problems, not suggestions.

Then remember that some problems are non issues.

When Diablo 2 came out before hell mode was solved, if the developers listened to what people would have said we would not have a game still having lobbies immediately fill up weeks into ladder reset 20 years later. It seemed impossible, it seemed like the developers released a troll game mode that was never meant to be beat. It was solved.

You said 100 on ruthless PoE1 would not be reached, we reached it last league.

When PoE came out, you guys had the right idea. Starting perandus/prophecy, league after league after league you kept giving too much power and speed creep by addressing the problem of "we feel weak" in the wrong way.

Stand true to your vision, there is a happy middle ground here (such as tutorials on how to get resistances, and tweaks to positioning/nodes on the tree)

This game may seem hard, but it absolutely gives you the tools you need to succeed. People want to skip the campaign, the campaign is bloody brilliant, the ascendancy trials are brilliant, nothing but glowing feedback across my guild (who is nothing but D2 and PoE vets having zero issues with the game that are non-technical like crashes, all level 60+ or in maps/waystones).



We are all long time supporters and believe you have a chance to make a game that targets us hardcore ARPG players without needing to make a Ruthless GSF like you did for PoE1.

PoE1 has the extreme zoom power fantasy skip-the-campaign style game. Nerfing Malachai on release made me really upset, I don't even wear my Awakening shirt anymore.

The new ascendancies are very well done, only small rebalances needed on some underwhelming ones and nerfs to overperforming ones. Again, player power being earned is extremely gratifying. Some are a small adjustment from feeling good.

Keep the combat engaging and challenging, and add small rebalances to skills/trees.

One of the things my guild is most worried about is the extreme fun we had reaching the limited endgame will be lost after waves of buffs and power creep like PoE1. Campaign is a rite of passage, and it's earned not given. It was this way in D2, it used to be this way in PoE1, and it is the way to keep us ARPG players engaged PoE2. Frankly, if the game released in its current state, we would still play it over anything else.

You made a fantastic campaign and game, stay true to the vision. There are many players who aren't making forum posts and instead actually playing the game.

PoE2 is amazing. Many of our guild mates who are far in the game are loving it. This is a good middle ground between what Ruthless wanted to be and a true ARPG. Please don't gut and kill PoE2 to cater to the base you are ALREADY pleasing with PoE1, that you alienated for 5-6 years of powercreep.

It would be an absolute shame for you to double back on your wise decision to make a different game then just make it a reskinned PoE1. I have already clocked in 300 hours on PoE2 -- keep it slow and deliberate, adjust the endgame zoom.

Signed, guild and social circle of longtime lifetime supporters of PoE, D2, and other awesome ARPGs.

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FruitLord#0833 wrote:

I don't know what you mean by difficulty. I think that the difficulty was rough when I knew nothing. Like Xypha mentioned, the second character had the knowledge of how to increase damage, knowledge of boss fights, etc. Things went much smoother.

But things like XP penalties, maps with 1 portal, etc. Those are not "difficulties" but they are frustrations. Discouragements to players pushing them away from the game. Even small things like the well in town.

They can keep their vision, but it feels like they just rewashed some PoE1 things and threw them in regardless of how they fit with the vision. IMO, scrap endgame entirely and start over. Maybe you still have that atlas map but how the player traverses it changes, etc. All the ways of reaching endgame are bad. Breaches/delirium shards, etc. It's just a wall of tediousness.

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mariahens#0189 wrote:

The problem with poe2 isn't difficulty AT ALL. It's simply tedium and artifical difficulty. Every game system and the way they were implemented feels like a direct "fuck you" to many players and it shows that GGG does not respect our time at all. The 1 portal maps are absolutely insane when you can get one shot off screen through 20k es and not know wtf hit you. There is no crafting in the game to speak of it, it feels like a slot machine and the house always wins unless you're raxx apparently. The maps are pointlessly huge and empty for no reason. Take count geoanors manor it's like they designed one room and then let Ai copy and paste the same room with slight variations over and over some of the worst map designs I've ever seen in any arpg. The RNG for citadel in the end game is absolutely disgusting. Loot acquisition without rarity is an absolute joke . There's just so many problems with the game that you are not mentioning. I genuinely love poe2 and how it feels as a foundation but there's so many issues and it feels like a major step back from poe 1