POE 2 early access paywall

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n0z0mu#3392 wrote:

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Ispita#4020 wrote:

People must be really new on the internet. This has always been like this with a lot of f2p games. They soft release it but it is an actual relese already. The game is ready to be played no matter the amount of content it has. Do you think the amount of people that will buy EA probably half a million at least are just there to "help test the game" come on this is a soft release. Don't jump around the bushes. I'm not saying it is bad or not but this has always been like this. If you are around for a long time you clearly see it. No matter the marketing name early access/open beta anything this is essentially the same thing. Only thing matters is that it has a price tag or not.

Again, just because you see it that way, does not change what it is.
It is not even a soft release, let alone a full one.
No full campaign, no all classes and ascendancies, everything will be deleted after early access ends (and probably few times in between).

Game was ready to play 10 years ago since it started as a upgrade to PoE 1...
I do not care about number of people that will or will not play it as that is irrelevant. Nor do I care about marketing or their naming.
Game is not full feature = not a full release.

That is like saying you can drive car with only 2 tires installed if you balance it properly and calling it soft release since it is usable and car is driveable! ("The game is ready to be played no matter the amount of content it has")

I think the issue stems from your viewpoint of this being soft release. It is not. Game is not out yet, nor is it feature complete. Paying 30 dollars is optional, just as it is optional to play the early access.

Just to clarify, there will be no wipes and it will have it's own leagues and it's own 'standard'.

It also is a feature-complete game - you are stuck too much on labels and ignoring the broader context.

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Xyel#0284 wrote:

Just to clarify, there will be no wipes and it will have it's own leagues and it's own 'standard'.

It also is a feature-complete game - you are stuck too much on labels and ignoring the broader context.

Yes, my bad, just read it and there will be no wipes, but the chars will be put into special "Early Access" league ("We will do new leagues but none of your characters will be wiped, they will just go to a league called Early Access (so they will never be in Standard).") so there will be no interaction between EA chars and release chars.

No it is not, since they said such - there are no 3 acts, not all classes and ascendancies are released. Nor the endgame is fixed yet. There is no context to ignore.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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Nubatron#4333 wrote:

The term predatory is being thrown about in this thread often enough that I think some don't know what predatory means.

Both the buyer and seller know exactly what they are buying and selling. GGG offers early access to POE2 for a price, and the buyer gains access to POE2. There isn't anything hidden in that transaction or held back.

If you cherry pick a term and then leave out the context it was used in, then sure. For the record, I used that term to describe the general monetization of the game. Points systems are inherently predatory design. How that translated for you into the Early Access key being predatory is beyond me.

Distinction without a difference. Points are the same thing.

GGG sells points and EA for a price. The buyer gets points and early access for that price. The transaction has nothing predatory about it. No one is coerced into it. There isn't any tangible impact to the buyer if they opt to not buy.

Points have value in terms of MTX. The buyer decides if the money they spend is worth the points + early access. It's really that simple.

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n0z0mu#3392 wrote:

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Xyel#0284 wrote:

Just to clarify, there will be no wipes and it will have it's own leagues and it's own 'standard'.

It also is a feature-complete game - you are stuck too much on labels and ignoring the broader context.

Yes, my bad, just read it and there will be no wipes, but the chars will be put into special "Early Access" league ("We will do new leagues but none of your characters will be wiped, they will just go to a league called Early Access (so they will never be in Standard).") so there will be no interaction between EA chars and release chars.

No it is not, since they said such - there are no 3 acts, not all classes and ascendancies are released. Nor the endgame is fixed yet. There is no context to ignore.

The context is the size - comapred to D4 release, PoE2EA has a longer campaign, more classes, way more monster types, massively more bosses, and way more endgame. Or in comparison to any other ARPG release.

That it doesn't have even more classes and even bigger campaign and even more endgame doesn't change anything about the EA being a complete game, which is effectively the largest ARPG on a release date ever.

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Xyel#0284 wrote:

The context is the size - comapred to D4 release, PoE2EA has a longer campaign, more classes, and way more endgame. Or in comparison to any other ARPG release.

That it doesn't have even more classes and even bigger campaign and even more endgame doesn't change anything about the EA being a complete game, which is effectively the largest ARPG on a release date ever.

But it does. It just means D4 or other games are less value for money. There is a reason why PoE is genre defining, and PoE 2 will also be.

Just because other games are crappier and give way less, does not impact PoE's development and their features.

It is not about what is currently developed already, but what they are saying IS STILL MISSING FROM THE BASE GAME.

If they said "this is it fellas, game is here, we did everything we wanted for now" then yes, that would be a release.
But they did not. They said game is around 80% complete. By their own standards, whishes, features and ideas game is not finished for release.

Also, if we are in comparison mode, PoE2 has way less content than PoE 1. So it cannot be released until it reaches that amount of content and features?

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Xyel#0284 wrote:

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n0z0mu#3392 wrote:

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Xyel#0284 wrote:

Just to clarify, there will be no wipes and it will have it's own leagues and it's own 'standard'.

It also is a feature-complete game - you are stuck too much on labels and ignoring the broader context.

Yes, my bad, just read it and there will be no wipes, but the chars will be put into special "Early Access" league ("We will do new leagues but none of your characters will be wiped, they will just go to a league called Early Access (so they will never be in Standard).") so there will be no interaction between EA chars and release chars.

No it is not, since they said such - there are no 3 acts, not all classes and ascendancies are released. Nor the endgame is fixed yet. There is no context to ignore.

The context is the size - comapred to D4 release, PoE2EA has a longer campaign, more classes, way more monster types, massively more bosses, and way more endgame. Or in comparison to any other ARPG release.

That it doesn't have even more classes and even bigger campaign and even more endgame doesn't change anything about the EA being a complete game, which is effectively the largest ARPG on a release date ever.

I don't think there is any point comparing poe2 to diablo4 because the reality is poe2 has like 80% of poe 1 content itemisation, crafting, currency, uniques, passive tree (keystones notables), map/atlas, league content like breach delirium sanctum etc none of these are new to be honest. Diablo 4 is still a completely different game without anything carried over from previous games.

December 6 is a defacto soft lauch of the game. And its buy to play. Pay to play. Dont really care what anyone says, you have to dole out $$. Money has had to leave your wallet in order to play on December 6. Unless you, while making your argument, are not playing until the game launches maybe in 2025. Then you have some ground to stand on. If youre in queue with the rest of us on December 6, you paid to be there.

Think of it this way... for the longest time in POE1, we had three acts. Then a fourth. Then they removed difficulties and upped it to 10 acts. Free. THAT was free to play. "official" launch or not, the game was live, with leagues, updates, additions, acts being added, systems being tweaked,etc. Launched. Free.

Not anymore. The game won't be free to play until hopefully sometime in 2025 and by then I'd reckon 90% of people that have any interest in POE will have had spent $$ on getting into the EA.

Did you think through this post? POE is free because of the players who support GGG. If you want to play for free you can wait for the full release. If you can't shell out $30 there are like 10k keys available over on reddit, play the lotto.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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Nubatron#4333 wrote:

GGG sells points and EA for a price. The buyer gets points and early access for that price. The transaction has nothing predatory about it. No one is coerced into it. There isn't any tangible impact to the buyer if they opt to not buy.

Mate... what on earth are you even replying to here? You sure you are quoting the right person? Because whatever you are arguing here, it has nothing to do with what I talked about:

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Then you have this other major issue, where buying a weapon skin for 1H weapons requires you to buy 2 of them for dual wielding, turning a $24 weapon skin into $48. But oh, what's that? Right, you also need to buy the weapon effect twice, so that's another $48. Oh, and you don't like the ugly aura buffs of your character? Pay $5 EACH to turn them off.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and I love the MTX, but the pricing is absolutely ludicrous and predatory in every way. The whole pricing structure with points is set up in a way where you need to buy more points if you want to buy something else, because you'd be like 5-20 points short each time. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.

Last response because there is clearly a disconnect here. You don't have to buy anything. Literally nothing. I could even argue that since accounts are free, you don't even have to buy stash tabs if you have enough patience with logging in/out (to be clear, I don't view that as reasonable....just possible).

You think the point system is predatory. Okay. I would argue it's a great added value to a lot of the support packs. You get MTX and points to spend as you please on other MTX. You don't like how they've monetized the MTX, the price of the MTX or the way they have decided to sort out the logistics of MTX for specific slots or auras? Fine. Don't buy them.

That's the point. You lose nothing if you choose to do nothing. If you had to buy those things, maybe. But you don't.

Stash tabs is the one place where there is some debate on this topic, but since stash tabs are forever across both games and you can get enough for the cost of a AAA game, it seems fair. And then you're set up for the life of the game. No expansions to pay for. No classes added later to pay for. No subscription fee to keep bleeding you. Nothing.

To reiterate the point, it's not predatory because you lose nothing by choosing to buy nothing. If your character being ugly as fuck bothers you, then that's completely on you. And oh btw, there are enough MTX through challenges now that you can fix the ugly as hell problem too.

Anyway, last response on my part. This is going nowhere very fast.

Yeah well, technically you don't Have to go to the casino, either..