Build diversity is still terrible

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Draegnarrr wrote:

To me Phrazz all that build diversity means is I can actually make a good Double Strike build

I think "build diversity" is more about that actually diversity (which is measurable), not the potential diversity (which can't be measured). The only problem with that, is that the actual diversity is influenced by so much more than in-game mechanics and balance.

Agreed, its a complex thing and I just wanted to share my view of the umbrella it falls under

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Phrazz wrote:

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trixxar wrote:

Build diversity could be terrible even if build viability is good. That's still a problem for the game because it means viable builds are not being found, hence there are not enough tools and incentives to try different things.

"Being found"? What does that even mean?....

I couldn't care less for build diversity, as long as we have good build viability.

Then we are just talking about different things I guess.

I couldn't care less about build viability for someone who just wants to gear up to make any skill possible (which is a perfectly fine approach).

I think its more interesting to see how all the players respond, because that tells you how builds (1) are made/discovered, (2) perform at roughly equal gearing efforts, (3) do the tools exist to find new builds that are equally viable with the same gearing up effort.


""Being found"? What does that even mean?..."

What exactly is unclear? You haven't heard of putting together a build, mixing a skill with a talent tree, optmizing it, playtesting it, refining it?

Never heard the term "found a new build"? Not ringing a bell?

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trixxar wrote:

Never heard the term "found a new build"? Not ringing a bell?

Sure I've heard of it, but I just think PoE is "found out", and 99% is discovered. That's one of the reasons we have leagues; to add new stuff that can add some variations into some builds, like the shield, belt and enchants did this league. But they were all VERY direct and clear in what they do, so not much discovery needed.

I used the belt this league for a very long time. I ran around with 5000 Ward on top of my 93/93 block chance and it worked very nicely. Level 30 aspect of the crab on top of that, made the character very tanky (at least for me). I didn't even scale block on the tree, but through gear and Tempest Shield effect. Did I "find something new"? No, it's all mechanics people have been using for years.

But yeah... I get you. The new ward items did in fact add something new in terms of builds, and several players actually did something new and original using the ward gloves, the strange boots and the new ward belt.

I am just surprised so few people are playing avenging flame. That thing is bonkers - Chieftain-like tankiness + reasonable clear speed + boss destroyer + cheap as hell.

One good thing about playing a niche build is how cheap they are.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

I am just surprised so few people are playing avenging flame. That thing is bonkers - Chieftain-like tankiness + reasonable clear speed + boss destroyer + cheap as hell.

One good thing about playing a niche build is how cheap they are.

If youre talking about Flamewood Support then the only Youtuber/Streamer that played it successfully (views wise) was Woolfio. I attempted to play it a few leagues ago and it just felt bad to play. It might feel better now though.

Many of the skills that exist in PoE typically require more currency to feel good whereas the 'meta skills' typically feel good right out of the box with little tinkering.

Getting rid of Melee Strike Range on Gems was a head-scratcher. Strike Skills were already in an iffy spot and getting rid of one of the things that made Strikes feel good just made me not want to play a Strike build. Not to mention Ancestral Protector being removed didnt exactly motivate this idea either.

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moerutora wrote:

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Johny_Snow wrote:

I am just surprised so few people are playing avenging flame. That thing is bonkers - Chieftain-like tankiness + reasonable clear speed + boss destroyer + cheap as hell.

One good thing about playing a niche build is how cheap they are.

If youre talking about Flamewood Support then the only Youtuber/Streamer that played it successfully (views wise) was Woolfio. I attempted to play it a few leagues ago and it just felt bad to play. It might feel better now though.

It is the easiest Simulacrum runner I've ever played.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9TLSSRTDN0

Can do feared without a problem. I also assume it can run T17, although I've only tried one.

That being said, it is far from done and beside the Mageblood everything else is pretty cheap. Sides, the Mageblood gives me no damage whatsoever, so I imagine it can do simulacrums without one.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

I am just surprised so few people are playing avenging flame. That thing is bonkers - Chieftain-like tankiness + reasonable clear speed + boss destroyer + cheap as hell.

One good thing about playing a niche build is how cheap they are.

totem playstyle is not for everyone...people usually want fast mappers. and the chieftain like tankiness comes from the mageblood.

You an achieve the same result with melding of the flesh.