Build diversity is still terrible
" do you realize how silly of an argument that is right? You just chose a skill whos damage in the current state of the game is based upon the assumption of its interaction with frost bolt thats like asking someone to build a blade blast build without using bladefall or vortex and then claiming "see game no balance, look!" you chose a skill that literally is BALANCED around a specific archetype right now skills in this game are constantly in flux or saying that Tech slam or EQ arent viable because you are forced to use warcrys to get the maximum effect so that invalidates the skills viability these are build archetypes and they constantly change and they make the game interesting you literally cannot argue that the game currently isn't more accessible farther into the endgame via a far larger number of builds because it fucking is lol (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س
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borrowing what another forummer mentioned. build viability is based off of checking of boxes. the more you do, the more comfortable/fun the game is.
one thing i hate about the "build diversity" argument is because people downplay the argument a lot. for starters diversity is bonkers crazy. there a huge lot of diversity. and this is a fact. bad builds and good builds included. usually whenever anyone talks about diversity what they actually mean is "build diversity of builds that are ACTUALLY viable". which is actually A HUGE LOT TOO. even if you take out all the bad builds, some builds ARENT EVEN META but are quite good. because of this, from a numbers game its very easy to dismiss any criticism of "build diversity" in POE. because of the sheer number of diversity that exists. to me whenever i see any post criticizing build diversity, what i see are people actually attacking POWER CREEP in the game. power creep on monster/content side to be exact. everytime something more difficult is added in, players are expected to be more powerful to be able to do them. more content is almost always good if its quality content. and ggg does produce a huge lot of quality content. the issue is that when the content requires the player to be VERY strong. "skill disparity" becomes larger. if skill A is slightly weaker than skill B people would just turn a blind eye. but then when multipliers kick in. suddenly skill A is much more weaker in comparison. and thats the actual problem whenever people talk about build diversity. it goes all the way down to skill disparity. some skills simply are just better than others. strike skills for example, feel like shit without the "strikes additional target" mod. it also feels like shit when you dont add weapon range. add enough weapon range and you'd start to wonder why you didnt use a non strike skill instead. oh reminds me. whenever i talk about strike skills people would be quick to use skills like lightning strike saying its not an issue. bro lightning strike is more of a projectile attack rather than actual "trumelee". to avoid talking about melee. i would bring up 2 points. 1. the difference between an efficient build vs someone just trying to make things work can be millions vs thousands of dps. the disparity is huge. i d also point out that once upon a time 600k dps was considered bonkers. now? people would just say "thats it???". but in anycase, i really just drop the topic coz balance in POE1 is not easy. people have bitched about it for a decade. and i think its really not going anywhere soon. its something that we just have to trust GGG to balance. [Removed by Support]
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" No... you just dont know how to make anything unique. " Yup, sorry I ruined that talking point. What can I say though? Just built different I suppose. Mash the clean
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Build diversity is terrible if you base it on PoE Ninja OP, stop it.
This league was the best for diversity in absolutely ages I got to make all sorts of shit on HC and i've already got like 5 PoBs ready for next league. Could it be better? Of course, but things are moving in the right direction |
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" These are two unrelated arguments. Build diversity reflects the actual number of builds people play in the game. Build viability reflects the possible number of successful, many of which no one plays because they are undiscovered. Build diversity could be terrible even if build viability is good. That's still a problem for the game because it means viable builds are not being found, hence there are not enough tools and incentives to try different things. It could also means builds don't play differently enough for any of it to matter, hence no point not copying the meta if you just hold down a button regardless and the screen dies. | |
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Glad to see I'm not in the 90%
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" You describe a player skill/knowledge/stubborness problem not a game problem. Aka "or "you just dont WANT to make anything unique" Why did I want to make several unique builds you ask? Has nothing to do with the game or any "tools or incentives". Had to do with, inquisitive (player), fun (player), testing and experimentation (also player) For example: I made 4 builds, all of them, completely different archetypes. Slam Melee Close Range Strike Melee Pure Physical Spectre Retaliation (swapping between crushing and eviscerate) Able to do all content in the game. All on insanely restricted budget. Pretty diverse. And they dont play anything alike. " I dont know seems like you have talking points but ... no real meaning behind them, easily disproven statements, and then ignores pretty much all context in the game. "Ah man that skill just holds a button like the other skill that holds a button, why bother play the other one then" •Gear progression is different •Trait tree planning is different •Defences are different •Scaling is different •Type of "1 button" is different (DOT, Conditional, Crit, Hit, Ground Based, Mine, minion...) •Gameplay progression is different •Strengths and weaknesses of specific mechanics is different •Bossing/Clearing is different And then you just ignore I guess the fun part of video games like POE. •Playing something new •Learning/Discovering from trying something new •Testing/Experimenting How do you think new builds come out if everyone just thought the way you did? Seems paradoxical. Mash the clean
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" You do realise there is another icenova gem that does not interact with frostbolt at all right? Current Build: Penance Brand
God build?! https://pobb.in/bO32dZtLjji5 |
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" "Being found"? What does that even mean? You can literally take EVERY melee skill and beat the game with it. Hell, you can even do it on every class and ascendancy that makes sense for melee. But I do agree; there's probably not a lot of incentives to go for a Double Strike build, when Lightning Strike and Molten Strike are both better in every way. But that will ALWAYS be the case, as all skills can't be perfectly balanced. Or, they could, but would it be fun? At least now, after the "melee patch", you CAN take every melee skill and make a good build out of it. So build viability? Great, at least for melee. Build diversity? That is being influenced by SO MUCH MORE than in-game balance and mechanics. People usually use PoE Ninja for stats on build diversity, but PoE Ninja "only" takes into account the "highest" level characters. And the higher level character you are, the higher chance there is for you to be thoughtful of both economy, efficiency and ease of building, encouraging you to take advantage of the small (and in some cases huge) skill/ascendancy differences. PoE Ninja is a funnel towards the small balance percentages - and people will follow. I couldn't care less for build diversity, as long as we have good build viability. And for melee, we have that, which brings you the freedom to play whatever skill you like, as long as you have the knowledge to build around it. Isn't that the best incentive out there? To play what you WANT to play? I WANTED to play a non-secondary effect strike skill this league, so I made a Frenzy of Onslaught build, and I'm farming T17s and beating Ubers with it. I think it's the perfect incentive; I wanted to, so I did it - and the game lets me. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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To me Phrazz all that build diversity means is I can actually make a good Double Strike build, its a standalone statement completely unrelated to molten strike or VLS.
Which is why i think this league was a step in the right direction, yes you can crutch everything with a meta cuck trickster but you are also vastly better as a double strike build this league to if you made the same build last league. |
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