what happend to GGG?

I don't want to derail this thread any longer.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Australia's existence is not subject to an opinion. Your stance on child labor, while I'm certain was hyperbolic for the sake of argument here, would just be a poor opinion in the view of most reasonable people.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

I actually agree with you there. I don't think any PVE game can be P2W in the sense of the word, but people debate or push back on that all the time. What's there to win in PoE? So why push back on paid QoL?

It can be pay to cheat yourself, which I suppose is close to enough 'treat yo'self' that there are probably some advocates for it out there.

I'm just posting to prove that I exist. I was worried for a second there, then I remembered it's just the internet disbelieving I exist. Nothing new there, although I think more accurately it'd be 'just the internet not knowing I exist and not caring even if it did'.

^_^

I'm glad to hear you still exist.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, which is par for the course for me on these boards, but PoE stash tabs for example, while admittedly massive QoL, doesn't strike me as P2W, although I could see how some may think it is. I'm not sure I've cheated myself, but I sure as fuck saved myself from insanity.

*me still waiting for GGG to allow me to convert 4 premium stash tabs to a quad tab.

'made the problem, sold the solution' remains the best way of looking at that. That said, the 'problem' is so deep into the enjoyment that few would ever look at it that way -- more like 'necessary evil because loot good'.

It remains morally quite tenable imo, the monetised storage, a respectable proxy entry price to the 'real game' -- a huge subterranean multilevel casino under an equally huge but relatively flat amusement park.

Still: my most beloved time with Diablo 1 was those first few months when I didn't even have the internet, had never heard of bobbafett's trainer or hex-editing. Variation on a theme: chasing that dragon. Chasing chasing chasing wait what did that dragon look/feel like again nevermind keep running the loop or you might fall over...

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

What is Pay To Win? from Josh Strife Hayes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNT72xzv1Y

He accurately explains with a very objective stance on what's being discussed here about QoL and P2W, and i think it's a must watch that would better explain why P2W is very objectively present in PvE games than i ever could.

Just a small quote that very vividly applies to PoE: "If you have to justify something isn't as bad as people think, you're accepting that people have a natural belief that it is bad, and you're now in the defensive".

I would very strongly recommend you watch it, Darth, and anyone else, really.

i dont know why some people are so bullheaded about the definition of p2w.

jsh already made it as succinct as possible. anything paid that gives you a gameplay advantage over someone that did not is p2w.

stash tabs in poe provides a huge advantage for people playing poe. it saves a huge amount of time its not funny.

i remember how i used to play poe as a cheapskate f2per. i would arrange my currency into small stacks in one tab. arrange gems in another. leveling gear, etc.

chaos recipe takes a huge lot of inventory. on std i have over 10k chaos orbs. that could easily take 2 regular stash tabs (back when they stack up to 10), or 1 full stash right now.

its not a mere pay for convenience. in poe1 i cant identify anything as pay for convenience as many things sold are qol or gameplay advantages disguised as pay for convenience.

the div card revealing hat for instance save a whole lot of clicks over time is an example.

normally when a friend asks how poe is monetized, i would say besides stash tabs, it practically has no p2w.

less time i spend organizing stuff is more time i have actually playing the game. to discount that as not an advantage is being dishonest.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Maybe we back off the whole "but they own the company" thing for a second and you lay out what exactly you think Tencent does? What changes have they made to the Path of Exile you and I play?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I don't want to derail this thread any longer.

@ArtCrusade
It's hard to name any of the non existent changes hoho.
Just another biased take of "Tencent bad, behold their evil planned changes!"

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Pashid wrote:

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

Maybe we back off the whole "but they own the company" thing for a second and you lay out what exactly you think Tencent does? What changes have they made to the Path of Exile you and I play?

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

I don't want to derail this thread any longer.

@ArtCrusade
It's hard to name any of the non existent changes hoho.
Just another biased take of "Tencent bad, behold their evil planned changes!"

It's always "I have the evidence on my side of the argument" but never "here is the evidence:"

Well it's an impossible argument isn't it? We don't know what PoE would look like without the Tencent acquisition because that's what happened. You can argue that the bulk of mtxes went up but maybe that was always going to be the case. Just as a simple example.

So ultimately 'Tencent acquiring GGG changed PoE' is an opinion, not a fact. 'PoE changed after Tencent acquired GGG' is much closer to truth because it removes the unprovable causality...although by its phrasing it still at least tempts one to consider it. Facetious, sure, but important. 'PoE changed after Tencent acquired GGG but it changed before that too'...too clunky, equally as true. From what to what? Too much work to explore, really, for likely too little outcome.

A fun discussion but allow yourself no illusions that there's a resolution to it beyond that. Not that being able to 100% prove it either way makes a lick of difference -- in this case, 'how it happened' and 'why it happened' are supremely less useful than 'what happened'.

...And even that is academic at best, given in the end you have precisely one choice when it comes to GGG as a customer: consume or don't. Assuming 'consume' may or may not include 'spend', which I do assume given one's consumption of GGG's product is designed to entice that.

Business gonna business. Business as usual. ^_^

PS And it would be very bad business not to throw everything they have at a brand new game after milking their previous one to death and then some for ten years+. It blows my mind how many Exiles fail to grasp this, when surely they either experienced or at least know how long D1 'lasted' as the top dog of ARPGs before BlizzNorth went full-ham developing D2. Hint: it wasn't ten years+.

So what 'happend to GGG?' Yeah, you know. Deep down, you know. Business. Gonna. Business.

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Well it's an impossible argument isn't it? We don't know what PoE would look like without the Tencent acquisition because that's what happened. You can argue that the bulk of mtxes went up but maybe that was always going to be the case. Just as a simple example.

So ultimately 'Tencent acquiring GGG changed PoE' is an opinion, not a fact. 'PoE changed after Tencent acquired GGG' is much closer to truth because it removes the unprovable causality...although by its phrasing it still at least tempts one to consider it. Facetious, sure, but important. 'PoE changed after Tencent acquired GGG but it changed before that too'...too clunky, equally as true. From what to what? Too much work to explore, really, for likely too little outcome.

A fun discussion but allow yourself no illusions that there's a resolution to it beyond that. Not that being able to 100% prove it either way makes a lick of difference -- in this case, 'how it happened' and 'why it happened' are supremely less useful than 'what happened'.

...And even that is academic at best, given in the end you have precisely one choice when it comes to GGG as a customer: consume or don't. Assuming 'consume' may or may not include 'spend', which I do assume given one's consumption of GGG's product is designed to entice that.

Business gonna business. Business as usual. ^_^

from my pov, i've always maintained the idea that the partnership with tencent emboldened GGG.

previously they had to always try to cater to the masses to make sure that they have a steady supply of supporter money.

with tencent money theyre like "we're rich bitch we can do whatever we want".

and thus they started going wild. with the money they could fund the development of poe2. they even improved (debatable) the end game with more things to do/more challenges. innovated the atlas tree.

i would even argue that they became reckless even.

all because they have a safety net made by papa tencent.

i believe tencent has always been treating GGG well and allowed ggg to make the game they want, how they want it. albeit, they have control over POE china.

i m kinda annoyed that we dont have waifu pets like in china tho.

It was a bit trickier than that and I can't/won't elaborate, but eh, that's the gist of it. Tencent acquisition emboldened GGG. For sure, a great summary.

Because it covers both sides of 'what happened', good and bad. An emboldened company will take more risks, but also be less considerate.

Yeah, I like that wording.