what happend to GGG?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Ok right. I did mention that you acknowledged this previously. Again I'm curious then why it's then "speculation" if they already have a Dev Team in place in another region, who is operating currently in conjunction with the World Realm.

If anything this should be solid evidence that Tencent is more than willing to impact PoE on a development level, because, well... they already are. Or clarify why this doesn't apply, or what is needed to "change your tune" as you said? It seems you are making both the statement that Tencent does indeed influence gameplay (PoE China), but that they also wouldn't (PoE World).

Surely it cannot be both? It stands to reason that Tencent is staying out of the World Realm for now solely out of choice, not anything else. They can, and most certainly would, intervene, if they thought it was of financial benefit.

Tencent is one of those investors you actually want. They dont involve themselves in things they dont know about, in this case game development. They buy companies that know what they are doing. They influence Chinese market because they know it, they do not know western market so they dont interfere. Western market is so small in comparison so they most likely dont even care.

You want to blame them because you are just bored of PoE. Leagues are more sophisticated than ever before but you are to old for that shit. Forum dwellers always complained about leagues that required more than holding rmb for 45s. It was always like that. We just get more of such mechanics these days because GGG can afford them now. Thats all there is to it. Dont even try to pretend like im wrong because those complaining are always the same 15-20 people that do it for years.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

According to whom? This is insanely naïve imo.

Tencent doesn't have to force anything, they are the sole owner. They can literally do whatever they want. It's clear, for now, they see PoE World as operating fine. However that could change that at a moments notice, and they don't have to apologize or acknowledge anyone in that process.

It's not myopic, like at all. It's a fundamental understanding of how Tencent operates across many games in their business portfolio. This isn't even remotely difficult to comprehend, and is backed up by actual evidence. Anything to the contrary is simply a modified version of "Trust me Bro". The notion that Tencent would be magnanimous here just because it's GGG, makes no sense to me.

It's not assumption of magnanimity, it's an assumption that the money overlords aren't going to make a decision they have strong evidence will backfire badly out of the blue just for the moustache-twirling evilness of it.

Trust me, I despise corporate structure as much as the next gal. I am fully on board with "large corporations are inherently evil". But, as you point out, there is nothing we can do about it should Tencent decide to moustache-twirl and sabotage their own earnings by pissing off the PoE fanbase to the point of mass exodus from the game. One can rant at the heavens over it and ty themselves in impotent knots, or accept that it's evidently not in Tencent's best interests to crank the thumbscrews on a property that is obviously doing fine.

I cannot say with any certainty of course, but I would be willing to bet that Tencent acquired Grinding Gear more to ensure that the rug wasn't pulled out from under the Chinese game than for any nefarious reasons in particular. And/or otherwise smooth over issues with the Chinese product. I can't imagine they really care about the Western version beyond ensuring it's profitable enough to pass muster, which it clearly is given Grinding Gear's increases in size and scope.

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1453R wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

According to whom? This is insanely naïve imo.

Tencent doesn't have to force anything, they are the sole owner. They can literally do whatever they want. It's clear, for now, they see PoE World as operating fine. However that could change that at a moments notice, and they don't have to apologize or acknowledge anyone in that process.

It's not myopic, like at all. It's a fundamental understanding of how Tencent operates across many games in their business portfolio. This isn't even remotely difficult to comprehend, and is backed up by actual evidence. Anything to the contrary is simply a modified version of "Trust me Bro". The notion that Tencent would be magnanimous here just because it's GGG, makes no sense to me.

It's not assumption of magnanimity, it's an assumption that the money overlords aren't going to make a decision they have strong evidence will backfire badly out of the blue just for the moustache-twirling evilness of it.

Trust me, I despise corporate structure as much as the next gal. I am fully on board with "large corporations are inherently evil". But, as you point out, there is nothing we can do about it should Tencent decide to moustache-twirl and sabotage their own earnings by pissing off the PoE fanbase to the point of mass exodus from the game. One can rant at the heavens over it and ty themselves in impotent knots, or accept that it's evidently not in Tencent's best interests to crank the thumbscrews on a property that is obviously doing fine.

I cannot say with any certainty of course, but I would be willing to bet that Tencent acquired Grinding Gear more to ensure that the rug wasn't pulled out from under the Chinese game than for any nefarious reasons in particular. And/or otherwise smooth over issues with the Chinese product. I can't imagine they really care about the Western version beyond ensuring it's profitable enough to pass muster, which it clearly is given Grinding Gear's increases in size and scope.

You will have to explain to me, aside from a critical viewpoint of a "Chinese Product" how adding pets (for example, but pick whatever you want) to pickup loot is moustache-twirling, while we already have predatory MTX from GGG themselves in the forms of loot boxes, battle passes, and limited-time fomo supporter cosmetics. I get one impacts gameplay and one does not, but again, I'm not seeing an evil corporation at work with that type of paid QoL. To put it another way; there are lots of reasons to find fault in Tencent, but business savvy is not among them.

I thinks it wildly hyperbolic, and frankly disingenuous, to extrapolate that the paid QoL in PoE China would be cranking thumbscrews on Western players who already deal with GGG cash-grabs at every turn. (cosmetics, storage, skill effects, character slots, hell even turning off an effect cost $$$. Fucking everything imaginable lol)

And as far as backfiring, what "strong evidence", or examples do you have of this? I've already mentioned some game genres that do just fine in terms of paid QoL or P2W lite options. Shit Blizzard does this already in some of their games, and D4 just added pets that loot for you. The assumption that PoE would suffer as a consequence, is without any measure of evidentiary certainty imo. Sure you can think this, or have that opinion, but anyone that suspects the contrary is far from Tinfoil Hat territory.

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kuciol wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Ok right. I did mention that you acknowledged this previously. Again I'm curious then why it's then "speculation" if they already have a Dev Team in place in another region, who is operating currently in conjunction with the World Realm.

If anything this should be solid evidence that Tencent is more than willing to impact PoE on a development level, because, well... they already are. Or clarify why this doesn't apply, or what is needed to "change your tune" as you said? It seems you are making both the statement that Tencent does indeed influence gameplay (PoE China), but that they also wouldn't (PoE World).

Surely it cannot be both? It stands to reason that Tencent is staying out of the World Realm for now solely out of choice, not anything else. They can, and most certainly would, intervene, if they thought it was of financial benefit.

Tencent is one of those investors you actually want. They dont involve themselves in things they dont know about, in this case game development. They buy companies that know what they are doing. They influence Chinese market because they know it, they do not know western market so they dont interfere. Western market is so small in comparison so they most likely dont even care.

You want to blame them because you are just bored of PoE. Leagues are more sophisticated than ever before but you are to old for that shit. Forum dwellers always complained about leagues that required more than holding rmb for 45s. It was always like that. We just get more of such mechanics these days because GGG can afford them now. Thats all there is to it. Dont even try to pretend like im wrong because those complaining are always the same 15-20 people that do it for years.

LOL nice bait, but I'm good. Thanks for the...input?

He's not wrong, PoE is not the only game that shows that especially if you look at other large and successful games like Warframe or even league of legends.
Tencent has no interest about what's going on in the games for the rest of the world, they just take their profit as shareholder and that's about it.
Shocking concept that a investor invests money to make money lol

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Pashid wrote:

He's not wrong, PoE is not the only game that shows that especially if you look at other large and successful games like Warframe or even league of legends.
Tencent has no interest about what's going on in the games for the rest of the world, they just take their profit as shareholder and that's about it.
Shocking concept that a investor invests money to make money lol

Nah, of course he is wrong, and of course Tencent cares about what is going on with their investments. I mean really? Listen, again I'm no Tencent apologist, but to even entertain the notion they are just some clueless megacorp that doesn't know what they are doing, and just buy gaming companies for the LUL's, is dangerously obtuse, more so for reasons moderation won't allow a discussion on.

Even if there was such an intelligence gap in terms of Western gamers (which there isn't imo), Tencent would/could just hire consultants, or leverage US companies in their portfolio to understand better. I can't confirm they don't already do this, but seems logical to me that a company with nearly unlimited resources, would travel down this avenue (or any avenue for that matter), to tap untold hundreds of millions in other markets.

There is zero chance they don't look at games in the F2P space and don't see the enormous Western revenue possibilities. Some of these games are printing money and have plenty of P2W aspects. I think often times, some of the more stubborn gamers that are die-hard, anti-P2W, don't see the writing on the walls. Games like Genshin, HSR, LA, WW, and this week ZZZ (40 million pre-registers?), have plenty of Western gamers forking over cash.

*side note that Warframe is P2W already

What part of what i said says they dont know what they are doing? Its the opposite. They exactly know what they are doing thats why they dont involve themselves in things they dont understand. They want to keep making money. I will take tencent over EA or Aeria Games any day.

Also Warframe is not P2W since there is nothing to win. Its collecting game, getting shit is the point of it.

Hmm. Must have missed some of the conversation, from what I saw backlogging through most of it seemed to be the usual "GRR TENCENT EVIL GONNA BLEED US DRY BECAUSE THEY CAN" groggery. Which, frankly, you yourself pointed out that Grinding Gear's existing monetization is already pretty shaky (at best) by freemium standards. This game's prices for its various cosmetics are honestly outrageous, and the fact that I have as many as I do is an indicator of poor impulse control as much as 'value' of product. Heh. Not to say I bleed remorse - my policy for buying stuff like that in games is to only ever spend money I won't miss anyways. But eh.

The whole PEE TWO DUBBLEYOU debate is as old as time, or at least as old as money, and I doubt Western gamers will ever stop having conniptions over it. Pets that loot for you wouldn't break the game, no - but they would incite an epic dungstorm across the community spaces, and frankly if they were going to implement that sort of QoL feature I would rather they globally implement autolooting and configure it to work for everybody, then add pets/minions that give it an optional visual effect.
Hell, maybe the minions can even extend the range or increase pickup rate or whatever it is.

I would argue that paying to enhance something the game already lets you do is always going to be infinitely easier to swallow than paying to access functionality you simply do not get otherwise. Just look at the ongoing kerfuffle over needing a premium tab to access in-game* trade. People still call that egregious and unacceptable PEE TWO DUBBLEYOU, but in every case I've seen the answer is "JUST LET US HAVE ONE PREMIUM TAB FOR FREE SO WE CAN TRADE WITHOUT NEEDING TO SPEND MONEY". Access to the functionality. Never mind that premium tabs literally cost less than a candy bar these days, people still get up everyone else's butts over it. You always see "IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING!" arguments, or "I REFUSE TO GIVE TENCENT MY PAYMENT INFORMATION", or other reasons why the one and a half whole dollars it takes to upgrade one basic tab to premium is Simply Not An Option.

If someone wants to enhance their experience with multiple premium tabs to sort and organize their sellables, nobody cares - but putting basic access to the functionality behind a paywall causes endless grousing and irritation. Deeply frustrating, especially when premium tab upgrades are one of those things that is an honest to Jimmy nothingburger price-wise. if you have the equipment to run and play path of Exile, then you can spare a buck-fitty for a premium tab upgrade...and yet, here we are.

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kuciol wrote:

What part of what i said says they dont know what they are doing?

Just this:

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kuciol wrote:

They dont involve themselves in things they dont know about, in this case game development. They buy companies that know what they are doing.

This whole P2W debate is stupid. By the standards of some people there is no game in existance thats not P2W. For me P2W is when you HAVE to pay in order to win. But when it gives you no real advantage even if its something you cant get in game within reasonable time or there is nothing to win than it is not. Very simple definition.

Edit. Oh so you just dont understand what that means.