what happend to GGG?
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I actually agree with you there. I don't think any PVE game can be P2W in the sense of the word, but people debate or push back on that all the time. What's there to win in PoE? So why push back on paid QoL?
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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" They could, but where's your proof they do? It's also possible that the universe was created by a slime in a tin can flying through space. Prove me wrong! No, it is obvious that Tencent has great influence. Yes, certainly GGG needs to perform well so they can continue just doing "their thing." At the heart, Tencent is not a gaming company. They're a conglomerate that invests in video game company (besides social media, e-commerce, mobile games, internet services, payment systems and smartphones). The reason why I didn't bring up the fact that there's a Chinese version of PoE is because I don't have to. The Chinese client is just on top of the regular client for the Western world, with changes which are suited for the Chinese market. This is smart, because PoE wouldn't appeal to an audience that is used to a different gaming culture; classic PoE just wouldn't fit in. Path of Exile is already successful. They have no reason to demand changes to the game and its monetization. If you want to argue the other direction, please provide evidence for it, because I don't see it. " Please, if people could pay 50 dollars to automatically win an offline game of Monopoly against their sibling, they'd pay. There are plenty mobile games where you never interact with other players aside from having your name appear on a highsore list that are pay2win such as Candy Crush. I'm not saying PoE is p2w (it's not), but let's not pretend that you subjectively not considering something a win doesn't mean it's not a win they can pay for for someone else. There's a ton of nuance to this The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge. Last edited by ArtCrusade on Jul 1, 2024, 7:12:48 PM
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" I'm confused. Didn't we already agree they do so on the PoE China realm? How is that not proof? Sure PoE is successful now, but nothing is promised moving forward. Or who is to say what Tencent agrees is "successful" in terms of PoE's financial performance? Tencent doesn't have to demand anything. They own the IP. If PoE2 falls flat, or PoE1 has clunkers of leagues for extended periods, or if they don't reach financial milestones, or quite frankly, any fucking reason whatsoever, Tencent can make any changes as they see fit. What exactly are you saying I'm wrong about here? Be specific because I truly don't understand your argument. GGG has no actionable say in the direction of their company anymore. They can provide input, or consultation on the board, but if Tencent wants to monetize the PoE World Realm they way the do the Chinese Realm, they can do so, with impunity. I don't know if that would be a good idea or not, but what I do know is that the discretion is up to Tencent and no one else. To be completely honest, you would have to provide me with evidence that someone else besides Tencent (which has 100% ownership), has any say in the changes Tencent wants to make, if any. Edit: On P2W everything is subjective. Your opinion on it is just as subjective as my opinion on it. What's "winning" in PoE? Killing Kitava? Red Maps? Ubers? PoE economic domination? In your example I'd argue that Monopoly vs your friend is actually PvP. Which I do think P2W has impacts on. Again in a PVE environment, I think this is wildly subjective. Thats why I lean towards saying "paid QoL". Which PoE does in fact have. So does D4, so does Warframe, so does Lost Ark, and on and on we could go. Since it's subjective you could argue that PoE is not "P2W", but only because you have your own personal definition of what that means to you. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Jul 1, 2024, 7:35:55 PM
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Maybe we back off the whole "but they own the company" thing for a second and you lay out what exactly you think Tencent does? What changes have they made to the Path of Exile you and I play?
And siblings are an environmental hazard which is enough to assert that playing Monopoly vs family members is to be considered PvE :') The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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What is Pay To Win? from Josh Strife Hayes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNT72xzv1Y He accurately explains with a very objective stance on what's being discussed here about QoL and P2W, and i think it's a must watch that would better explain why P2W is very objectively present in PvE games than i ever could. Just a small quote that very vividly applies to PoE: "If you have to justify something isn't as bad as people think, you're accepting that people have a natural belief that it is bad, and you're now in the defensive". I would very strongly recommend you watch it, Darth, and anyone else, really. Ruthless should be [Removed by Support]. Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro on Jul 1, 2024, 8:00:41 PM
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" Killing last Boss of the current expansion, non uber one. Thats the goal, so by doing it you win. Ubers are aspirational content. Opinions can also be wrong, so subjecive or not doesnt really matter. | |
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What objections to "Pay to Win" boils down to is a player saying "I don't want someone else to do better than I can do just because they paid more money than I did." it's the feeling that skill, time, and dedication should matter more than income, and that if a game significantly rewards spending to obtain progress or gain a competitive edge, then players who do not/cannot spend have no incentive to bother.
Buuuuut...this is balanced against the fact that a game needs money to live. The devs have to sell something, and cosmetics can only take a game so far. Especially when, as is evinced all the time here in the forum, much of the userbase is openly, nakedly contemptuous of anyone who uses/displays/has cosmetics. "I don't want someone else to do better than me because they paid to do so" has in a very large percentage of Gamer Culture become "Anyone who pays anything into a game beyond the absolute bare minimum box price is a corporate shill asskissing sycophant with no impulse control." In this very forum, a great deal was made of 'Not One Penny Extra', I do believe. A significant chunk of the overall gamer population actively prides itself on never paying for anything they do. This is of course legitimate in a game like Path of Exile which allows free play, but it cannot be universal. Somebody gotta put the money in somewhere, and as much as everyone detests it when this fact is stated? it's still a fact. Which means the company is obliged to offer things for sale that people actually want and will be enticed to buy. Predatory monetization is a huge problem in modern gaming, especially free-to-play, and doubly especially mobile. It's awful, and people need to stand up to it. But also companies need to be able to sell stuff if they want to keep making games. There's a balance point between a company being predatory price-gouging assgoobers and "customers" being miserly tightfisted wankers. Is Grinding Gear sitting perfectly on that balance point? No, not really. They could cut the cost of almost everything in their store in half and still be doing perfectly fine. But the whole conversation needs to remember that players are supposed to want to make purchases, as well. | |
" Oof we are definitely not going down that rabbit hole. You can absolutely disagree with someone, or think they have a bad take on something, but to say someone is "wrong" for their opinion is... well fundamentally flawed. The entire premise of an opinion is subjective. I like chocolate ice cream. You do not. Two opposing opinions, but neither is wrong. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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In most MMO's and ARPGs of now and old, a build's growth is linear. All of the diablos, almost every MMO I can think of, the growth caps out somewhere in position with the most challenging content. D2 - poe's progenitor - is a perfect example. Power growth in PoE, however is exponential and there's realistically (not literally) no cap... This means they need to keep adding stronger bosses, and content that caters to that scaling we get from the expansions. Pushing out the expansion release timetable actually slows the power creep and gives them more time to balance. Yes, I know that word is not welcome in this forum.
Consequences of the above on the OGs What happens when your growth is so outrageous? You turn into one-punch man where nothing's a challenge, not even deep-delve. You become disillusioned with the game because you're 1-tapping literally everything, and balance becomes a joke. This is why I can't play PoE anymore. Consequences of the above on the newer players You can't even make full use of the map device without beating pinnacle bosses. The endgame just seems unachievable The scope of knowledge required to understand the game is as cavernous as the bags under the eyes of the people who stream PoE full time. All of the content has made PoE arguably the most complex game of all time. You can fumble your way through the acts, though if you want to make it to red maps, it's back to uni for you. Uber atziri was the start of all of this. Back then most people didn't even challenge regular atziri though because it was too rippy. Anyone remember when Core map first came out? Nowe have uber pinncale bosses, with phases and memory games no-less. I'm struggling to come up with new goals to keep me playing this game.
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" In my opinion Australia doesnt exist. In my opinion forced child labor should be legal. |
