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alhazred70 wrote:

Ben's last gauntlet winner: DD Necromancer with offering Block using Determ and a Granite (a HC staple as Sid points out correctly and others apparently don't understand is a well known thing datig all the way back to RaizQT being a huge proponent of the strat) but his Helm boots and Gloves are hybrid or pure EV, his unique chest is AR (fourth vow) and employs an Armour mechanic.

And yet his increased armour % is 32% which is hard to call "investment". and He has a bunch of EV and hybrid items on and doesn't even have flat AR on his belt.

hmmmm its almost like the point is valid despite the hyperbole/troll title...

BTW a bunch of Ben's characters this league are wearing Lightning coils I wonder why? Damage shifting seems good almost like it might be easier than Armour investment?

Almost like its reasonable to suggest that easier defensive strategies and "low investment" Armour and Block such as you get from Determ+granite or offering block on a necro are way too good.

And maybe that should not be the case? I mean I realize the OP's title makes this a difficult place to have any nuance or serious discussion. Doesn't mean the points invalid.

And it also doesn't mean the EQUALLY troll/nuance free strawmen are warranted.

+1

I just wished that a casual 20k armour would matter without the otherwise mandatory 30%+ physical taken as elemental/chaos. Helmet and chest are super competitive for that reason, making defensive gearing a huge chore in HC.

Factor in spell suppression and pure armour gear becomes garbage-tier. Why not allow Additional Physical Resistance to roll on gloves, helmet and boots that are pure armour or armour/ES? Even if it only gets to 5%, leaving the big 8% rolls to shields and body armour.

That way you'd have an actual argument in choosing a non-evasion base

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alhazred70 wrote:

Ben's last gauntlet winner: DD Necromancer with offering Block using Determ and a Granite (a HC staple as Sid points out correctly and others apparently don't understand is a well known thing datig all the way back to RaizQT being a huge proponent of the strat) but his Helm boots and Gloves are hybrid or pure EV, his unique chest is AR (fourth vow) and employs an Armour mechanic.

And yet his increased armour % is 32% which is hard to call "investment". and He has a bunch of EV and hybrid items on and doesn't even have flat AR on his belt.

hmmmm its almost like the point is valid despite the hyperbole/troll title...

BTW a bunch of Ben's characters this league are wearing Lightning coils I wonder why? Damage shifting seems good almost like it might be easier than Armour investment?

Almost like its reasonable to suggest that easier defensive strategies and "low investment" Armour and Block such as you get from Determ+granite or offering block on a necro are way too good.

And maybe that should not be the case? I mean I realize the OP's title makes this a difficult place to have any nuance or serious discussion. Doesn't mean the points invalid.

And it also doesn't mean the EQUALLY troll/nuance free strawmen are warranted.

We can look to HC players to a certain extent but you have to take into consideration why they are building the way they are. They are taking all these conversions because they probably HAVE TO. Ben particularly is a racer and plays HC so to an extent yes these mods are powerful and maybe a better option for farming T17's and rushing HC races...

but that doesnt mean or even come close to implying

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sidtherat wrote:

armour on gear is mostly wasted stat

I would like to, I dont even have to though, think the majority of POE players arent playing at Bens level or risk.



In normal POE land, where people aren't risking 1 life in T17s and rushing bosses. There is a lot more room for player agency and mod leniency. For example:

I defeated all ubers, 30 sim, any kind of juice I wanted in Affliction + wisps and I engaged in 0 phys ele conversion, 0 spell suppression, and the only max res I had was from Aegis.

Is it a less effective option on how I played? Maybe. What I do know is getting suppression gear on top of everything you already have to do is $$$ and/or more crafting time. Which is part of the reason I dont play SRS that way. I also dont convert PSN for the same reason(unique heavy and $$$), or go eldrich battery... etc....

Also with the Armour and Amour/Eva combo we really need to be careful of the vacuum thinking. Even in trade you may not have the option of a high percentile, or even available Triumphant, maybe the only thing available on the market is a Glorious plate at a high percentile or any variation of those things. The point here is while there is a best option, normal trade POE allows and is forgiving enough so you dont HAVE to choose the best gear every time.

You see this with plenty of Juggs just on ninja still getting suppression cap and not having to worry about getting an amour/eva body. (Then again they just added back in tattoo's making it easier to cap suppress as well, but afflicion had charms to assist too)

You wanna compare? You compare people to like Alkaiser known as the lord of melee lol

Anyone who watches Alk understasnds he's a different animal. Not throwing any disrespect when I say that Alk saying AR is OP is very relative to what Alk does. but the guys who win all the gauntlets (note I know Alk has a win a few years back) are using shifting and low hanging fruit low investment strats and that speaks volumes.

AR in a vacuum is really quite good thats why HC players almost all have Determ and a Granite flask.

IMO thats where Alk's OP comments come from I'm sure if context is added that he would agree that its a little suspect that someone with shifting setup and a aura and flask probably shouldn't be more tanky than someone with 80k and 230% increased armour from the tree.

Especially when that someone is using Fourth Vow but yet has Evasion and Hybrid EV+AR rares on and no AR on belt. Armour is almost an afterthought on Ben's Fourth vow setup. How much evidence do you need?

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Chickenwink wrote:

I defeated all ubers, 30 sim, any kind of juice I wanted in Affliction + wisps and I engaged in 0 phys ele conversion, 0 spell suppression, and the only max res I had was from Aegis.

you did all that because:

- you are standoff summoner with almost 100% damage uptime, cutting down the fight duration
- you are close to block cap(s) with Aegis Aurora
- you run Determination with aura effect to fuel the Aegis

congrats, you discovered one of the oldest OP defensive setups in the game.

the AR rating you have doesnt give you shit (vs hard content) and the rolls on your armour (one flat on helmet and one flat on gloves, none on your chest/belt/boots) are wasted prefixes

your entire tankiness comes from Aegis, minion leech and most likely Animated Guardian (cannot see his gear but I assume it gives you at least something). the AR rating (used to defend vs phys hits) is cool for thrash mobs that dont even hit you cause SRS killed them earlier but it is completely useless vs anything dangerous. AR is ofc invaluable for Aegis setups but not for the primary defense reason. you can safely click overwhelm altars/expeditions - you wont see a difference

oh, and you are the first player ever who uses Aegis WITHOUT Divine Shield. maybe.. 'consider' using it? it will give you more than that paper PoB 'pool' you see and trust.

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sidtherat wrote:

you did all that because:
- you are standoff summoner with almost 100% damage uptime, cutting down the fight duration

1) Stand off screen is not how summoners are played. Again you dont know what you are talking about. You stand off screen with SRS? You lose ALL damage aura's and support effects for your minions. Which ... let me calculate that here... really easy when zombies cant reach, spectres cant reach, AG cant reach..

1.9M Uboss damage, lmfao. As opposed to 4.6M WITH buffs and supporting minions.

So no thats not how summoner, specifically any SRS build, is played.

You are in the mobs face, easier to dodge skills that way anyways, most skills are outward cone effects.

Its actually worse if you stand at range in ... pretty much all the uber fights. Cept for maybe maven.

Which you would know if you played but:

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sidtherat wrote:

- you are close to block cap(s) with Aegis Aurora

Am at block cap, reached it because its how the build is... built.

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sidtherat wrote:

congrats, you discovered one of the oldest OP defensive setups in the game.

Stacking armour and ES for aegis. OP defense I guess.

Dont have spell suppress at all, dont have eva. Dont have +max res outside of Aegis 5% cold.

Running defiance banner+determ as defense and a couple spectres+AG for other defenses. Which you obviously knew already... clearly.

Its like... having all that armour/es on pieces may have... Oh I dont know, provided a lot of defense.

By the way the gear that the character is currently wearing, +spectre chest, +2 ammy, +2 helm... A large cluster, awakened gems, 21 gems, perfect darkness enthroned....

Yea I didnt have any of that for the uber kills or 30 sim. The chest I linked in a previous post is though. I kept most the pieces I had before I min/maxed damage after I was done with progression.

Here is just another example of a piece I actually was using

And without the large cluster I had access to the life/ES nodes on the right and several armour/es passives as well.

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sidtherat wrote:

the AR rating you have doesnt give you shit (vs hard content) and the rolls on your armour (one flat on helmet and one flat on gloves, none on your chest/belt/boots) are wasted prefixes

Could load up and do t17's on that character, did actually to try them out. Not sure what you classify as "hard" content.

Beat the rest of it in the previous league. So this statement of yours is a bit, contradictory.

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sidtherat wrote:

your entire tankiness comes from Aegis, minion leech and most likely Animated Guardian (cannot see his gear but I assume it gives you at least something). the AR rating (used to defend vs phys hits) is cool for thrash mobs that dont even hit you cause SRS killed them earlier but it is completely useless vs anything dangerous. AR is ofc invaluable for Aegis setups but not for the primary defense reason. you can safely click overwhelm altars/expeditions - you wont see a difference

Aegis is being used because... im stacking high ES on that character and have block cap, Armour is just there because I am building it through Armour/es bases. (Hint there are spectres that give other defensive's from Affliction that I am using)


Minion leech wasnt even a thing last league, bone barrier was completely different... AG does in fact give defense to me and my minion through a 2 handed weapon that... every single summoner that I have seen puts on him, if you have ever watched ... any minion player ever you know what weapon it is and what it provides.

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sidtherat wrote:

oh, and you are the first player ever who uses Aegis WITHOUT Divine Shield. maybe.. 'consider' using it? it will give you more than that paper PoB 'pool' you see and trust.

Oof, so much for "first player ever"🤣🤣🤣

Maybe start playing the game / actually checking proper numbers before saying a bunch of false things.

Again you are free to your opinions and inconsistent posting all you want, I am not trying to take that away from you. But to save some embarrassment, some basic research on things you are talking about would help!

Divine Shield works when Aegis works. just click it. you are the only person in the entire playerbase who thinks it is not needed


yes, summoner you play, not matter how you twist it, is standoff gameplay compared to selfcast or melee-lol. and you get proxy-leech. it is so stacked that only Brands are safer and well rounded handlers of dangerous content


Aegis gives you EVERYTHING on this build. swap it for any other shield and youll die. it is that simple. on the other hand you could click 'overwhelm 100%' node and you wouldnt notice. Aegis Aurora keeps you alive, not armour (as a form of defence). you need armour to fuel Aegis, but for absolutely nothing else. do you really think that 15k Armour (or whatever number you have) would save you in T17? it wouldnt. your character lives as long as you keep Aegis. you swap it for anything else - you die.


and nowhere did i say anything about ES.

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sidtherat wrote:

Divine Shield works when Aegis works. just click it. you are the only person in the entire playerbase who thinks it is not needed

You really need to actually research things you talk about. Especially when its things you, clearly, have no knowledge of.

So much for "first person" and "only person"

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sidtherat wrote:

yes, summoner you play, not matter how you twist it, is standoff gameplay compared to selfcast or melee-lol. and you get proxy-leech. it is so stacked that only Brands are safer and well rounded handlers of dangerous content

Uhhh Toxic Rain is more safe than summoner. Ea is more safe than summoner. The new elehit is more safe than summoner.

Pretty much any bow skill is more safe than summoner.

Again leech wasnt even a thing prior to this new league. Please start actually researching things you talk about. This is not hard to do.

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sidtherat wrote:

Aegis gives you EVERYTHING on this build. swap it for any other shield and youll die. it is that simple. on the other hand you could click 'overwhelm 100%' node and you wouldnt notice. Aegis Aurora keeps you alive, not armour (as a form of defence). you need armour to fuel Aegis, but for absolutely nothing else. do you really think that 15k Armour (or whatever number you have) would save you in T17? it wouldnt. your character lives as long as you keep Aegis. you swap it for anything else - you die.

Or whatever number you have. So you dont actually know what armour I have, or really... anything about the build.

So if I post a video of this build doing a t17 without aegis on will you take back everything you have said?

Sid is right my man. Your build is just another Aegis build in addition to being safe with summons.

i just loaded it into POB

4500 life
0 Energy Shield

SRS summoner + leech

why 0 ES? because without Aegis you have no way of replenishing it once the 2500 you have is gone to a first hit. you have no wicked ward, no faster ES recharge, no ES leech (unless spectres give you that, then maybe). ES on your build, once you take Aegis is worthless and without it you are 'armour faux-stacker with 4500 life summoner' - aka carried by angry skulls piece of paper

i do not want to see any videos, esp when SRS can just clear the map without even seeing a mob. but maybe do it for yourself, youll get some perspective. and people did this setup 5 years ago so it is nothing new nor revolutionary