Divines per hour more important than fun

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Vennto wrote:

The picture u referring to is the missing knowledge about crafting. People buy stuff because they are eigher risk averse, meaning they want results 100% secure, or they dont know how to produce items,which can only be solved by learning it which takes a lot of time and a bit of trial and error

I agree, but if enough people dont know crafting well enough or dont like the gambling so that the richest players are the ones willing to bother with it, that tells me something about the state of crafting.

I dont think we fundamentally disagree.

I am saying its most efficient to focus on currency from a time standpoint. In part because learning crafting and being patient with the results has a time cost.

You are saying if everyone had crafting knowledge, self crafting is competitive in most cases.

Agreed.

My thought is the state of the market/game shows that the current crafting system is not enjoyable to a LOT of players.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Fair point trixxar though I think MMOs were limited in what they could provide outside of the grind - i'm not saying progression isn't enjoyable or a goal either just that even in an MMO if you choose activity based only on xp/hr you are going to be cutting down your enjoyment substantially.

Almost everybody I know has played an MMO at some point and grinded in them, but barely any of them ever knew what was efficient they just played what worked for them as long as they got where they were going.

That original less measured approach has become less common over time however because the internet is readily available and constantly highlighting our supposed deficiencies so players try to min/max themselves out of fun fairly regularly.

As they say comparison is the death of happiness or something like that and it applies very much here, there are plenty of players who will be having a great time until they find out their "fun" wasn't as rewarding as someone elses when realistically its irrelevant. The purpose is to be entertained.

I agree mostly but I compare against the content.

If I play efficiently I can defeat all content each league pretty easily.

If I mix in (1) self made build instead of meta, (2) focus on fun not efficient for either currency or a spreadsheet of crafting materials across delve/essence/bases etc., (3) have a non-efficient build like a good bosser but horrible clear, then I don't go very far.

That is not fun, regardless of how others are doing.

Hence, meta build, efficient farming strategy, character built around bossing/clear balance (which goes back to meta).

So, I agree with your general ideas, but to me the state of the game is pushing those things even if you dont compare with others.

You can say I just need to git guud, but when you look at how many complete basic content (non-ubers, no Aul, not farming 5-ways efficiently) then it seems like 90%+ are in the same boat.

Div/hour is most important thing is poe, because unless you invest few houndred divines in you build, it's generally feels like total shit nowadays.

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As they say comparison is the death of happiness or something like that and it applies very much here, there are plenty of players who will be having a great time until they find out their "fun" wasn't as rewarding as someone elses when realistically its irrelevant. The purpose is to be entertained.

As Part of the solution, I think it is basically in streamers hands to stop throwing out numbers. Streamers and guide creators are the ones setting benchmarks. Is that the final solution? I highly doubt it though. PoE is naturally a game with high complexity, which always appeals to people that simply dont have a casual mindset. They will always seek for opportunities to minmax, and that doesn't end at builds but ultimately will reach farming strats.
It is like someone said earlier in this post: comparisons and competetiveness is an integral part of the game that some player seek out. I am one of those. I compare against others as well as myself from former seasons, I set myself benchmarks I wanna reach (for example: campaign in under 6h, atlas done sunday midday, so and so many currency by week one etc.
) and competing to meet those goals are literally the defining part of what I find fun in PoE, hence im such a SC Trade fanatisist.
Those benchmarks only become a problem of they LIMIT your fun.

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If I mix in (1) self made build instead of meta, (2) focus on fun not efficient for either currency or a spreadsheet of crafting materials across delve/essence/bases etc., (3) have a non-efficient build like a good bosser but horrible clear, then I don't go very far.

Again, Im sorry but I disagree. You describe the state of the game of 3.15, but right now it is extremely healthy when it comes to build diversity. How do I know? Because I almost exclusively run off meta builds. Most of them have some downfalls before they reach a certain level of currency, but we are talking like 10, 15 div instead of the meta starters that run on 4-5.
They sometimes have certain ceilings, but this is also true for some meta starters. This league I played Holy Relic Flicker Strike Necromancer and I cleared all ubers as well as Sim 30, 100% fully juiced deli (and basically everything else the challenges demanded this league). Is this a meta build for u?

And in terms of currency strats: I totally fucked up my initial farming strat, respecced the tree at least 10 times and delved to 500 and stopped - which is the worst time investment ever, as delve usually starts to be profitable from that point onward. And yet I was done with the league in 4 weeks, while doing a full time job without any time off.

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Divines per hour more important than fun

And that is more than likely why so many people get upset any time something changes in the game good or bad, because it changes how they earn and they feel like they are missing out while other gain.

It's why i dislike crafting leagues, they are not there to get a normal player something good to use, it's there to appease those that want justify their time by making something they can sell at stupid prices.

It's like someone playing WoW and just sitting in the AH all day flipping, they get some endorphins but that isn't playing the game nor is giving yourself a goal of divines per hour.

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Anngrat wrote:

Div/hour is most important thing is poe, because unless you invest few houndred divines in you build, it's generally feels like total shit nowadays.

Are you one of those people who say its impossible to play without Mageblood?

Its not impossible but boy oh boy is it infinitely more pleasant to play with Mageblood than without

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Its not impossible but boy oh boy is it infinitely more pleasant to play with Mageblood than without

Played my build to 99 w/o MB. Bought it and went to 100 with it. Barely notice a diffrence in normal mapping.
In ubers and bossing in general where you normally cant have 100% uptime on flask? Sure, its huge diffrence.

I play until it's not fun. Newer leagues tend to increase the grind too much so I audi 500 out in about 15 hours or 2 weeks. Basically atziri, both quest pinnacles and maybe maven if it's a good league.


Didn't help I played chieftan this league and, oh boy, was that a terrible rework. Even the "free melding" feels bad because all of your power comes from items. I get maybe 30% increased damage from the ascension. It's a mess


GgG just can't balance to save themselves.

Crafting sucks. Mapping gets boring, trading is ass. Bosses are interesting but don't drop anything useful unless you really grind it out.

Game has too many chores.
Too many checkmark just to play the game.

They need to do something and shake it up.

I think auras and cluster jewels are too important in the current balance. Nerf them and move power onto the tree. Then players will have a smoother progression in the map tiers.

As it is I have had 8 mod red maps that feel safer than some white maps because of the enemy skill imbalance. Its rare but sometimes the map mods just don't affect a build.

I think corrupting maps for atlas points is stupid. In fact I dislike the atlas point and voidstone progression anyway.
Make it so we just have to run each map once and we get our points. Just so much busy work.

It is a shame because they are very close to making a fun game, [Removed by Support]

I, for one, sure am not having fun when I can't zoomies around map in less than 15 seconds, one tap whole screen in less than 2 second. And to do that, I need currency, so Div/hour is almost as important as to having fun. Although spreadsheet-gaming-profits-count-ms.excel is not fun, clearing map with empty loot is also not fun. The line that I draw between fun vs divine/ hour, is to get the appropriate amount of currency in order to make/optimize my build. Once I reach that point, I stopped div/hour and start blasting on any contents that I enjoy. Well unless your do some shady business in the cartel community, all you do is div/hour, although I don't mind them since they also supply high-end/top tier items/loots for the market.