Why PoE 2 will again not get a Auction house? (or trading system)

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innervation wrote:

You can absolutely ask! I go way back to the days of trading via 'forum shop' in PoE and there was something magical about the idea of going to someone's thread and seeing their shop. You'd browse some and leave disappointed, and you'd see others that were way out of your price range (mirror-tier stuff), and sometimes you'd find just the shop you were looking for. I think we like games that mirror real life, in fact I know we do - that's why there is a market for these grindy (think idle/cookie cliker) games. Those games should be just as wearying as our day-to-day grind, but they aren't, because constant progress lets us 'win' at the games unlike IRL where there is no guarantee of winning or constant forward progress.

I was agreeing with this 7+ years ago at the infancy of POE. I also liked that about D2 as well and how POE was following on that path. Initially, for years, I was against the AH. However, as time passed I think it's starting to be an impediement. Forums trading and stuff was fun almost a decade ago, however, as time changes, IMO it's just making the game more boring. Back in the day when trading was fairly novel, that was cool. IMO that's starting to be very outdated. I mean, if the reason for not adding AH is for the massive old schoolers who STILL like that archaic system, I'm not sure how valid that actually is.

The game is starting to be a decent drag and trading doesn't seem to help it, except maybe for some of the very few massively hardcore players out there. I briefly read the rest of your post, and it seems you're advocating wanting a massive amount of friction, because you might be a massive HC gamer yourself who just want more. For the majority (of even decent gamers out there), there's already too much friction IMO.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Well, you kinda went off course talking about forum shop trade instead of current trade but i guess the principle behind why you like it is roughly the same. You enjoy the idea of having a "game within the game".

Guess there is no way we will ever agree then because that's exactly the thing i hate the most. I don't play POE to play shopkeeper. I'd play something else if that's what i wanted. The game within a game being so much more efficient for progress than playing the actual game that it's essentially mandatory just makes it worse.

Thanks anyway.

Fully agree with this.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Well, you kinda went off course talking about forum shop trade instead of current trade but i guess the principle behind why you like it is roughly the same. You enjoy the idea of having a "game within the game".

Guess there is no way we will ever agree then because that's exactly the thing i hate the most. I don't play POE to play shopkeeper. I'd play something else if that's what i wanted. The game within a game being so much more efficient for progress than playing the actual game that it's essentially mandatory just makes it worse.

Thanks anyway.

Fully agree with this. Too many times have I wanted to get back for another session, only to realize I'd have to spend my time trading, buying mats and selling my stash tabs in the ridiculously massively tedious way that it currently is (having to use TFT to sell in bulk, having to send spam to decent amount of players who aren't responding, you yourself not responding to people responding you cus you're busy doing something else, etc), that I instead just alt+f4 and quit the league right there.

It's a completely ridiculous system the way it is right now IMO. To the point where it's basically uncool. I personally have yet to see a valid argument refuting that. The argument about price fixing and stuff like that IMO is invalid.

What you actually need is closed/controlled market (group self found) or slower competition, no ?

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kuciol wrote:

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DaCurse wrote:

Well there is one and from what I know it existed since forever.

Well, since open beta to be exact. In closed beta we had to drop items on the ground to trade.

Thanks for the clarification.

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DeepAlchemist wrote:

It's a completely ridiculous system the way it is right now IMO. To the point where it's basically uncool. I personally have yet to see a valid argument refuting that. The argument about price fixing and stuff like that IMO is invalid.

Trading is in direct competition with carfting and droping, make one to easy and it devalues the other 2 to the point of being irrelevant.

What you ask for is no different then asking for NPC that will let you buy any item you need.

Making easy access to trading also mean flooding the market with insane amount of items making most of them worthless and selected few insanely expensive.

On top of that GGG regrets making trading as easy as it currently is.

I hope those arguments are valid enough for Your Majesty.

One of the biggest reasons is because auction house is hard to implement correctly take World of Warcraft for example. The start of wow up till cataclysm there has been a dupe hack allowing players to dupe items by posting them into the auction and using a script function to kick yourself out of the game because there used to be a delay of 45 seconds in-between the server saving character data and a player logging out. So items in the inventory would still stay and the ones posted would be posted. The time for that would increase with any lag between those servers as well. Poe is a great game but if everyone could dupe items it would really ruin the overall economy as well as the fun. The only way World of Warcraft could fix that bug was keep players logged in for an extended period of time in the game that's why when you logout of the game there's a wait period while character data is being saved. In Poe that would be horrible for people in hardcore who use logout methods to save themselves from a 1 shot imagine having a 2 minute wait to protect duping but your character is just standing there waiting to logout. But I guess if we never want to play hardcore again it would be easy to add and auction house.

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DeepAlchemist wrote:

It's a completely ridiculous system the way it is right now IMO. To the point where it's basically uncool. I personally have yet to see a valid argument refuting that. The argument about price fixing and stuff like that IMO is invalid.

An argument you don't agree with is not an invalid argument.

If you don't want to bother with multiple trades, there's a way. Bulk-sell. Bulk-buy. Don't use sextants. Here you go. You can play the game without bother.

I don't like constant trades. I farm Harvest, Essences, Blight, Altars, these kind of things. Whatever you get you can sell in large amounts. You play for a few hours, you list your Essences for 40-50C at a time or even sell the tab on TFT. You list your currency for 40C-1div at a time. Whenever you get a real valuable drop, you list it for 10% under the market price and you enjoy the thirty trade request within two minutes.

What do you need to juice maps? Scarabs. Just buy 40 at a time. List only people with at least 40 stock and buy in bulk. Here you go. You just have to shop every 10 maps.

You want to buy instantly? Just scroll down two pages. You'll get instant responses.

Want to buy divines? Don't even use the trade site. List chaos for 1/200div and wait for the 30+ messages that come in instantly after a minute.

You might lose some efficiency, sure, but losing 5-10% profit and not having to lose time on trade is great.

Sure, there's some pain points. Not being able to trade while in a lab is a problem, for example. Sextants are a pain to buy, since they only last four maps and you can use four (so you have to buy one per map). But mostly, the trading system works.

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kuciol wrote:

Trading is in direct competition with carfting and droping, make one to easy and it devalues the other 2 to the point of being irrelevant.

This is the key in every trade-related discussion.

Trading needs some kind of 'cost'. GGG have chosen a free, open market where you can trade as much as you like - as often as you like, at the cost of some time, knowledge and uncertainty, because the seller is free to ignore you.

If they made trading faster, easier and remove all forms of knowledge requirements, they'd have to introduce another form of cost. This could be limits on how often you could trade, how much you could trade or a straight up fee for selling an item. All of these 'costs' could work, but if people are thinking they would be welcomed by the majority, I think they'd be wrong.

Anyhow, personally I don't care what they do, as long as they keep the requirement of being online to trade, both buy and sell. But I do believe they have to do something.

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kuciol wrote:

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DeepAlchemist wrote:

It's a completely ridiculous system the way it is right now IMO. To the point where it's basically uncool. I personally have yet to see a valid argument refuting that. The argument about price fixing and stuff like that IMO is invalid.

Trading is in direct competition with carfting and droping, make one to easy and it devalues the other 2 to the point of being irrelevant.

What you ask for is no different then asking for NPC that will let you buy any item you need.

Making easy access to trading also mean flooding the market with insane amount of items making most of them worthless and selected few insanely expensive.

On top of that GGG regrets making trading as easy as it currently is.

I hope those arguments are valid enough for Your Majesty.

It is actually very different lmao. One other players have to find the stuff to trade them, as opposed to items being generated by an NPC that could be bought (Athough that can be cool too like in D2).

Also, I don't care if GGG regrets making trading as easy as it is or anything. I think a lot of GGG's decisions the past 3 years were total trash, and they've had to come back on these decisions and make emergency patches on rolling back those decisions almost every league since at least 3 years. GGG oftne does not know what they're doing, so them regretting making trading "easy" or not is basically irrelevent. Heck, the entire point of this topic is to point out how clueless GGG has actually been regarding trading.

No, I think those arguments are actually invalid, because it comes with the trade-off of being the game hard to get into, again, from having to spend tedious time selling stash tabs and then buying mats to even get back into killing monsters.