What do you think about the fact that Diablo 4 has copied POE wholesale?

you mispelled torchlight

Nah...

I hope Diablo 4 will go on to do great things. I want it to succeed. I want it to give me the same feeling as I had in Diablo 2. While the latter is probably impossible (an age thing, I guess), I'm serious here. Diablo 4 being a great game isn't a negative at all.

Will I try it? Probably. I'm pretty sure I won't try it at launch, depending on some of my friends, but depending on gameplay reviews, endgame reviews and a deep dive into the endgame grind and character customization, I might spend a weekend or two testing it.

I have no allegiance to GGG or PoE. I'm here because the game is currently giving me the deepest, most complex and most customizable experience (by far) in the ARPG market. If Diablo 4 will come close to that, while doing other things better than PoE? Well, I might jump ships - or play both games on and off.

Right now, the Diablo 4 depth and character customizations looks decent. If I can make my WW Barb (example) totally different from Jimmy's WW Barb through the progression systems the game throws at me (and not just gear), that's a good sign. What seems to be the danger (for me personally), are all the MMO elements Blizzard are hellbent on forcing down my throat. If I'll ever see other people out in the world without me seeking that experience? I'm out. If they'll gate ANY rewards behind "world events", I'm out. If they'll in any way, shape or form 'force' me to party up, I'm out.

When it comes do Diablo 3 being "bad", it all comes down to perspective. If you take an isolated look at the game itself? A massive success, even though it has a 4.2 user score at meta critic. The disappointment that many people show towards the game, comes from comparing Diablo 3 to the previous games in the franchise. And if we do that comparison? Coming into Diablo 3 wanting a Diablo 2 experience? Well, the depth, art style and story made the contrast so huge that it's totally understandable that MANY people was/is VERY disappointed.

"

RitualMurder wrote:

you mispelled torchlight

You too. It's a name. There should be a capital T.

"

Nubatron wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

For the record the Diablo franchise is perfectly fine. Wrecked? Please.

ALL of the Blizzrad North folks, including Brevik, went on to do absolutely nothing of note when they left. Besides a bankrupted Marvel Heroes which had a few moments.

I understand you have feelings about Blizzard and Diablo, but you can't just make things up that are not true.

Yup, wrecked for me. Without question. Storyline was ripped apart. Character customization as shallow as a puddle. Itemization even more shallow. Items raining as if there is a deep itemization (there isn't). Characters built out in a matter of hours. No trading.

You like to pull out game revenue as the metric to prove people wrong. I'm sure you're a huge Candy Crush advocate as well? Unfortunately for you and your appeal to majority based argument, this is a personal discussion about me and they wrecked it for me.

Diablo 2 was a great game. It just didn't evolve and is over two decades dated. Diablo 3 was the opportunity to build on that great foundation. They chose to go closer to the WoW crowd in visuals and gameplay with little notable depth. That worked well for smoothness of combat, but really missed the D2 boat on depth.

RIP Diablo 2 successor....except maybe POE.

Thats fine, you are entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts on Diablo and D3 more specifically. Nothing based about it, just facts from me. If you want to argue on emotions & feelings, sure go ahead, but that's all that it is, and I don't know what fellow forum goers are supposed to do about it.

Do whatever you want, but its really lame to try and guilt people that liked D3 or will play D4 as some sort of candy crush enjoying, shallow, mindless puppets. As if 65 million copies sold is an indication of anything even remotely close. A 68 year old grandma, or a 40 something stay at home mom, playing candy crush isn't the same sales demo as the core Diablo player. Miss me with that bullshit strawman against revenue as a means to review a game. D3 did astoundingly well over more than a decade and a few dozen seasons.

Not everything has to be PoE as you and Phrazz have stated a million times before, so stop trying to denigrate Diablo and those that enjoy it. It's not for you. Well great, but you are in a super elite minority in a niche game. Don't lose sight of that.

Speaking of which, let's see how many PoE players & content creators, that you seem to prop up so much, travel over to D4. That will be an interesting tidbit to explain away. Why would half of the player base move to empty, shallow, hollow, souless franchise. I tell you why. It's isn't and you are projecting way too much.

"

Phrazz wrote:

Right now, the Diablo 4 depth and character customizations looks decent. If I can make my WW Barb (example) totally different from Jimmy's WW Barb through the progression systems the game throws at me (and not just gear), that's a good sign. What seems to be the danger (for me personally), are all the MMO elements

You know whats ironic about this? How far PoE 3rd party tools and PoB have pushed a high customized game, into dps and gear boxes.

Most players are following a build guide, with nearly identical passive and cluster trees, and for the most part very similar gear. The RF, Poison SRS, Boneshatter, meta-builds, are just as cookie cutter as anything Diablo has. Literally a copy of someone else's build, with a fucking link to their PoB!

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

You know whats ironic about this? How far PoE 3rd party tools and PoB have pushed a high customized game, into dps and gear boxes.

Most players are following a build guide, with nearly identical passive and cluster trees, and for the most part very similar gear. The RF, Poison SRS, Boneshatter, meta-builds, are just as cookie cutter as anything Diablo has. Literally a copy of someone else's build, with a fucking link to their PoB!

Didn't you go all-in about choices in another thread, directly lying about what I said? Well, some people choose the cookie-cutter build. People are doing that in all Diablo games too. In PoE, you have the choice to do whatever weird thing you want. And if you put enough effort in, you can make most of those weird things work, at least up to a "uber boss" point. I'm sure there was plenty of builds in Diablo capable of the hardest content (highest rifts), but I'm also sure there was more builds capable of doing everything else.

Some people will always follow a build, no matter the game. Other people will always try their own thing. And I think we can both agree that there are more option to the latter in PoE. Not everyone is aiming for the uber bosses or deepest rifts.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

You know whats ironic about this? How far PoE 3rd party tools and PoB have pushed a high customized game, into dps and gear boxes.

Most players are following a build guide, with nearly identical passive and cluster trees, and for the most part very similar gear. The RF, Poison SRS, Boneshatter, meta-builds, are just as cookie cutter as anything Diablo has. Literally a copy of someone else's build, with a fucking link to their PoB!

Some people will always follow a build, no matter the game.

Nobody would do that though if only POE had an ingame skill/gear planner. Everyone would be free to make their own builds and they would all be amazing.

"

RandallPOE wrote:

Nobody would do that though if only POE had an ingame skill/gear planner.

Of course they would. Some people aren't interesting in building or planning. Some people just want to be told what to do, slay monster and have their version of fun.

"

Phrazz wrote:

Some people will always follow a build, no matter the game. Other people will always try their own thing. And I think we can both agree that there are more option to the latter in PoE. Not everyone is aiming for the uber bosses or deepest rifts.

This isn't about accessibility, it's about the illusion of choice, or at the very least, the fear of what you don't know in PoE (which is alot) harming your experience.

Very few people I would gather make their own builds, and have it be even remotely sucessful than what you could do in D3, LE, GD, etc...

In fact I'd say this knowledge gap, and fear, with PoE contributes more to the PoB copycats than anything else. It's where the depth and complexities, which should be a selling point, actually become detrimental. (Not to mention bugs, things not working or as intended, or in-game tools being inaccurate or misleading)

I'm fact I could argue that in D3 and LE, overall there are more functional build options than PoE that will get you into their endgames.

I'm also not saying there isn't build guides and videos for other arpgs, but they are FAR less meaningful and impactful. PoE really has jumped the shark there. Hell anyone that posts about a build, the very first comment and response (if it isn't already there), is a PoB link.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Thats fine, you are entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts on Diablo and D3 more specifically. Nothing based about it, just facts from me. If you want to argue on emotions & feelings, sure go ahead, but that's all that it is, and I don't know what fellow forum goers are supposed to do about it.

Do whatever you want, but its really lame to try and guilt people that liked D3 or will play D4 as some sort of candy crush enjoying, shallow, mindless puppets. As if 65 million copies sold is an indication of anything even remotely close. A 68 year old grandma, or a 40 something stay at home mom, playing candy crush isn't the same sales demo as the core Diablo player. Miss me with that bullshit strawman against revenue as a means to review a game. D3 did astoundingly well over more than a decade and a few dozen seasons.

Not everything has to be PoE as you and Phrazz have stated a million times before, so stop trying to denigrate Diablo and those that enjoy it. It's not for you. Well great, but you are in a super elite minority in a niche game. Don't lose sight of that.

Speaking of which, let's see how many PoE players & content creators, that you seem to prop up so much, travel over to D4. That will be an interesting tidbit to explain away. Why would half of the player base move to empty, shallow, hollow, souless franchise. I tell you why. It's isn't and you are projecting way too much.

That's an interesting perspective, that I'm guilting people by expressing my own opinion about the current state of the Diablo franchise. Imagine being so insecure about your opinion that someone else expressing their own opposing opinion on a topic is somehow guilting you. I won't even get into the irony of you pretending that I'm guilt tripping Diablo 3 fans when you spend most of your time on this forum doing the same thing but with POE. I don't feel guilted by your opinion; but somehow you feel guilted or think others feel guilted by the same but opposing opinion? Try harder.

This is a forum, where posts are largely opinion based and don't require that disclaimer. There are a host of people who mistakenly think their opinions somehow represent facts, but they are confused. I'm happy to let them stay confused because it's not worth the battle.

Diablo is a train wrecked franchise. Short of a huge u-turn with what they did with D3, I consider D2 the last real installment in that franchise with an honorable mention for D2R, and everything afterward as a cash grab that heavily departed from what the game was.

And just for your own understanding of this post so you don't misconstrue what this is, this is my opinion....again.

"

Nubatron wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Thats fine, you are entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts on Diablo and D3 more specifically. Nothing based about it, just facts from me. If you want to argue on emotions & feelings, sure go ahead, but that's all that it is, and I don't know what fellow forum goers are supposed to do about it.

Do whatever you want, but its really lame to try and guilt people that liked D3 or will play D4 as some sort of candy crush enjoying, shallow, mindless puppets. As if 65 million copies sold is an indication of anything even remotely close. A 68 year old grandma, or a 40 something stay at home mom, playing candy crush isn't the same sales demo as the core Diablo player. Miss me with that bullshit strawman against revenue as a means to review a game. D3 did astoundingly well over more than a decade and a few dozen seasons.

Not everything has to be PoE as you and Phrazz have stated a million times before, so stop trying to denigrate Diablo and those that enjoy it. It's not for you. Well great, but you are in a super elite minority in a niche game. Don't lose sight of that.

Speaking of which, let's see how many PoE players & content creators, that you seem to prop up so much, travel over to D4. That will be an interesting tidbit to explain away. Why would half of the player base move to empty, shallow, hollow, souless franchise. I tell you why. It's isn't and you are projecting way too much.

That's an interesting perspective, that I'm guilting people by expressing my own opinion about the current state of the Diablo franchise. Imagine being so insecure about your opinion that someone else expressing their opinion on a topic is somehow guilting you. I won't even get into the irony of you pretending that I'm guilt tripping Diablo 3 fans when you spend most of your time on this forum doing the same thing (expressing your opinion about Path of Exile). I don't feel guilted by your opinion; but somehow you feel guilted or think others feel guilted by the same but opposing opinion? Try harder.

This is a forum, where posts are largely opinion based and don't require that disclaimer. There are a host of people who somehow think their opinions somehow represent facts, but they are confused. I'm happy to let them stay confused because it's not worth the battle.

Diablo is a train wrecked franchise. Short of a huge u-turn with what they did with D3, I consider D2 the last real installment in that franchise with an honorable mention for D2R, and everything afterward as a cash grab that heavily departed from what the game was.

And just for your own understanding of this post so you don't misconstrue what this is, this is my opinion....again.

Well of course it's your opinion, and it's you writing your own posts. We shouldn't have to say imo every sentence.

Now that's out of the way.

I find it very ironic that you bring up insecurity when you do anything to downplay the success of D3.

I suppose it makes sense however, because how could someone rationalize millions enjoying something they do not? Minimize and Strawman like you do so often. "It's candy crush". I mean cmon.

Bottom line, its one simple thing. You didn't like D3, and/or the Diablo franchise any longer. That puts you in an extreme minority percentage wise, no matter how vigorous the attempts to validate.

Hate on D3, but not the players, or make things up to try an strengthen an argument that is purely emotional.