Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

this is an awful change harvest is already a massive pain to farm the changes should have been ways to implement trading of harvest crafts this just removes so many of the playable builds just looking at your retention numbers you should see how good harvest is for the game

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MRLAVA wrote:

i like that ur adding 60% chance to get groov in maps

increasing by 60% so its closer to 16% not a flat increase to 60%

You can literally make maths that 90% of players dont want to harvest be deleted.

If you want to strategically be left with 1/10 of players online, gl with that.

And remember, you will be left with worst of those players, those who never stop QQ, never stop whining, and never be enough, till the game is exactly how they see it. Not everyone can play10+hours, not everyone like HC, not everyone likes tryharding.

You forgot that GGG, when you listened to HC streamers, and those who play 10+hours a day everyday.

What I would have done...


If you harvest craft an item it is marked cannot be traded unless it is scoured. Harvest crafts are no longer tradeable.

You can still make great items. Great for SSF still. Harder to make perfect items, but can still grind yourself to make great items for yourself.

Simple, easy.

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MRLAVA wrote:

read a lot of comments , well yes i hope ggg see how bad this decision is .

i like that ur fixing the harvest boss fight and making it a map fragment.
i like that ur adding 60% chance to get groov in maps


problem is you know that people hate or dnt want to use discord to trade crafts and that thing is bothering a lot of the players but still u dnt do anything about it and you focus ur attention and changes on nerfs and other places .

really sad how logic works for you.


not to be negative ill give u a simple solution to all this harvest mess.

1-bring back tradable seeds

2-prebuilt incubators in the groov where we can set the seeds to grow the more we kill monsters

3-make harvested items untradeable.

4- allow players to store as much crafts as they like . an upgradable storage system similar to delve upgrades.

5-allow players to trade some miscellaneous crafts , like the one that duplicate div cards .

oh and fix the drops of this harvest boss , they are really bad still .


thanks ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Planting seeds is not fun.

Trading seeds is not fun.

You can't make harvested crafts untradable. If a player has access to it, its not going to know the difference if its YOUR rare or a rare someone just traded you Or a rare you just bought and want to craft on.

I don't post often, this is actually only my 2nd or 3rd post, but this one warrants a statement from me. I'm sure it'll probably not be read by anyone who makes decisions, and that's fine, I'm just stating one player's opinion. If anyone agrees and it brings a positive change, then great, but otherwise, I've said what I have to say.

I consider myself a casual player. My highest level character, so far, is level 94 and I've been playing for 11 months now. But I have a LOT of characters. One of my biggest investments in this game is buying extra character slots. I like trying out the build of the week, and seeing what it can do. But what this DOES mean for me is that in general, I have pretty average gear, none of the super-godlike items that cost so many exalts (or mirrors) that it would make a beginner wonder how to ever obtain such riches just to get a single item, that probably only helps one build. To give the best example I can, after all the time I've played, I finally obtained an item I sold for 25 exalts. ONCE. Everything else I've ever sold has been about 70 chaos or less. In other words, in order to play, I have to make average work, and for most of my characters, I can do so until right around yellow maps, and then the build breaks down, and I die too often to gain levels.

I might very well be terrible at this game, and if that's true, that's fine, but it still means for me that I need better gear, period.

So, I chug along, earning nearly no items for trade or currency, until after a couple weeks, I finally have enough to buy one item that might be worth 1 to 5 exalts.

I don't like trading as it exists in this game, and I don't want to be an item flipper. I want to play the game, not spend all my time trading. I trade when I need to, and almost certainly, based on all the videos and guides I've seen (which are MANY), I'm probably giving up 99% of all the currency I could possibly earn, maybe more, simply because I want to spend time playing, not trading. That's my choice.

However, that choice still leaves me in the dust in terms of experiencing all that the game has to offer. In STANDARD league, I just finally got my first points that apply to the entire atlas. Why is this, you ask? Is it REALLY because I'm a terrible player, or is it because the difficulty is ramped up SO HIGH that you cannot possibly achieve without godlike gear? I've seriously asked myself that question since the league started, and have concentrated hard on obtaining some key gear pieces through crafting (rather than buying) to make ONE character far better than the rest I have, and you know what I found?

You guessed it. The GEAR changed the outcome. I'm the same player. Same guy, same skills or lack thereof, but now I can make it through 40% delirious T16 maps (yeah, I know, small achievement for some, but HUGE for me), sometimes without even dying. GEAR changed the outcome.

And you, the developers, want to take away the only system that allowed me, a player with GREAT interest in the game, but of very meager means, the only system that allowed me to start getting competitive? That hurts, quite a bit.

You listed a philosophy of adding randomness to crafting, to paraphrase, to add an element of fear that if you use an exalt or annul on an item, you might turn it into a brick. You know what that means to someone who does not have a vast amount of currency in the game? It means that we'll never have the good items, because we don't want to squander what little currency we've earned after hours, days, nay WEEKS of gameplay on the chance of getting a good item vs. the risk of losing ALL that you've earned. What your "philosophy" of randomness is asking us to do is to avoid crafting entirely, and instead simple save up what we've earned and trade it away occasionally to get the gear we need to play. Your "philosophy" of randomness will basically make it so that only a small group will have the means to truly craft items that will get you through T16 high-end maps. The 1%, as others have called it.

As one poster mentioned, you acknowledge that part of the problem is that incredibly powerful gear was EASILY crafted, but I can tell you that this is EASILY crafted only by people who have a LOT of currency. And these mirror-worthy items, as you mention them? Who's getting them? Let me think... Oh yeah, the PEOPLE WHO HAVE MIRRORS. In other words, only the extremely wealthy are busy passing these back and forth to one another.

Come on, the problem is not that the items are powerful, it's that you can TRADE them. How many of the "godlike" items created in SSF have broken your game? Not only that, the problem as you call it is exasperated by the fact that you make trading HARDER in this game, forcing people to use alternate means to get the job done (i.e. getting on Discord), and then this opens up the new possibility of scamming to occur.

This can be solved, without taking away Harvest, even in its current incarnation.

1. Make it so you cannot trade Harvest crafts. The map "creator" has access to them, and no one else, no matter how many team members join when the map is first opened or later on.

2. Make it so an item modified with a Harvest craft is account bound. You can't trade it. This will make it so you can have your own "great" items, but you can only trade away items that have your "random" factor applied to it.

3. Create your own version of an auction house. Don't make it like WOW or whatever, make it simple. Hell, Path of Matth once made a simple suggestion that would work fine, make it so when you offer an item for sale, someone can ask for it while you're still in your map, without having to join in a group, by simply clicking "OK" on the transfer; the other guy gets your item, you get the currency. Simple. Long story short, if you take away the means for EASILY scamming someone, the number of scams will fall off the map, and the community in general will be happier. I'd even go so far as calling this a quality of life boost for someone like me, who does not want to spend my time trading.

I don't believe that Harvest needs nerfs. I believe that a subtle, not massive, but subtle change in your philosophy and thus follow-through with implementation will solve the problem instead. Listen to the people in this thread, those who are both FOR and AGAINST this change, and see if there isn't a middle ground that makes more sense than a sweeping change that more or less ruins the Harvest crafting. My ideas might not be the best, but they might be a building block someone else can work with. At least try to make some of the outrage less outraged, rather than taking a hammer and just smashing what you built.

Just a suggestion.

I hate this, harvest was honestly why i preoretized playing this game. Because it felt fun and exiting to craft. As well as finally reach the hights where i got endtier gear and can try to do engame content.

Sure i got HH and Rfaruls, cuz i put in the time but im FAR from complete and Am still on my first build, so nothing left to reach does not apply.
And right now i play this ALOT I can only feel the dissapointment in pick up gamers feel.


I will post my dissapointment here but am going to talk with my wallet wallet and paytime. Hope only others follow suit and explore other games. Games that actually listen to the player bace.
Hear good things about Valheim for example. D4 coming soon. I mean why not?


I will honeslty stop recomending this POE to others. Since fun time is over.

There is way too much RNG in this game at this point. There are many points in the game where it feels like you are stuck and you need to farm X amount of alts or fusings for example to HAVE A CHANCE to upgrade your gear. And thats not a good feel imo. I think there should be a way to deterministicly upgrade your gear at regular intervals even if it is just a little bit but that shouldn't be a gamble. And ofcourse I'm talking about SSF. As for the trade league it's unreasonable to for example chaos spam an item whe you can just buy it. That is sad cause the idea of not having the generic copper, silver and gold coins like in every game and that you need to barter valable items is cool, but at this point chaos and exalts feel exactly the same.

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kostyaq wrote:

You can literally make maths that 90% of players dont want to harvest be deleted.

If you want to strategically be left with 1/10 of players online, gl with that.

And remember, you will be left with worst of those players, those who never stop QQ, never stop whining, and never be enough, till the game is exactly how they see it. Not everyone can play10+hours, not everyone like HC, not everyone likes tryharding.

You forgot that GGG, when you listened to HC streamers, and those who play 10+hours a day everyday.

If you look through this post, almost every player with 36+ challenges is saying this is not what they want. I've yet to see someone with 40 challenges saying this is what they want. Those are the player who play 10+ hours a day all league.

PoE is one of those games where you will never captivate the average player and properly place the top end players into a longer play cycle each league. When you have something that makes the game extremely accessible to more players, of course it will trivialize it for the top end as well, but they already have other methods to find early and long term league success in which they will go back.

Where the average player that has received a boost by what Harvest offers will find themselves back at the starting point. I love GGG and I love PoE and that won't probably change anytime soon, but I've been in games where high risk low percentage success RNG rules the mechanics of progression and those systems are never in place to benefit the player or make the game more enjoyable.

They are in place to try to keep people stuck in a loop of long term investment.

While players like myself take reasonable but still hard earned success and convert that into the fuel our long term investment loop requires.

I'm finding that fuel and I'm enjoying this league a lot and it seems like so many others were enjoying what Harvest brought into the game.