Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

And more Pages got deleted, we should work out some sort of backup to see what kind of Posts they are deleting, also inform maybe some Gaming News Outlets on that behavior.

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bustr wrote:

And more Pages got deleted, we should work out some sort of backup to see what kind of Posts they are deleting, also inform maybe some Gaming News Outlets on that behavior.

First they take harvest and next they're gonna take some comments out that were definitely not just straight-up harassment!

BY MY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT I WANT TO HARASS ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH ME!

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Marobudka wrote:

At the end of every league, I ask myself - do I really want to go through all this again? Does it still feel like fun, or does it start feeling more like.. work?

Now, when I imagine I will need to spend so much more time mindlessly grinding to get the same result as with the current state of Harvest, it just suddenly seems like a boring work to me.

Messing with the tags a little to eliminate the most insane crafts would be so much better then the introduced nerfs.

I think all of us casuals do that. Thing is you get bored pretty quick with everything at your disposal in standard. It's actually the hunt for GG that's the fun part not actually having the GG stuff. You'll be back.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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Marobudka wrote:

At the end of every league, I ask myself - do I really want to go through all this again? Does it still feel like fun, or does it start feeling more like.. work?

Now, when I imagine I will need to spend so much more time mindlessly grinding to get the same result as with the current state of Harvest, it just suddenly seems like a boring work to me.

Messing with the tags a little to eliminate the most insane crafts would be so much better then the introduced nerfs.

I think all of us casuals do that. Thing is you get bored pretty quick with everything at your disposal in standard. It's actually the hunt for GG that's the fun part not actually having the GG stuff. You'll be back.

I completely agree with the hunt being the real fun here. But the hunt has to actually have a reasonable chance to succeed (reasonable being rather subjective I admit). With current Harvest, the chance might have been a bit higher then necessary, especially for certain OP items, but as I wrote, that could be easily resolved by messing with the tags. Either removing them (easy, but also heavily impacting delve crafting) or adding them (and hence making them more improbable to craft while increasing the risk of removing a mod you actually want). By the way, I've spent more time playing this league then probably all previous leagues combined, so Harvest did not remove the fun for me, on contrary, it motivated me to try to push the build to the limits.

I also did lots of alteration and delve crafting this league and at certain point the process becomes extremely boring. I mean, applying an alteration 3000 times, meh. Don't want to go through this again.

As about being back in the future, it's certainly possible. I find threatening 'I am definitively leaving this game, not paying a single dime anymore' etc. funny and GGG has seen millions of such posts afer each nerf without actually feeling any impact. But at the very moment, I am really disappointed by the planned changes. I just don't feel the usual urge to start a new build from scratch and making it amazing, knowing I would have to invest 3x more time into rather boring grind to achieve similar result.

yes

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Overall, this is undoubtedly a heavy nerf to high-end Harvest Crafting, but we strongly believe that it is in Path of Exile's best interests going forward

dont forget sacrifice divination card to get 0 or double

either you remove this craft completly or make it so rare that it always double up

other wise its gambling aswell. and there is laws against it no matter what of the user interaction it feels the same as being in the casino. who goes casino and closes his eyes. lead developer himself ? sir you might have a big problem. and european FCCA aswell with you.

i agree with some changes, and i disagree with it being overpowered.
We still need to put hours upon hours, to get a ''good'' item, i have never crafted a mirror tier item before, and honestly, can't even do it with harvest as it is right now, and u want to nerf it to the ground, how kind.

why the fuck

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Saristas wrote:

the best way to show them this is a bad move, is simply to not play the next league when it starts, or at all, which I'm planning to do, I skipped heist and I felt great about it. and I quit this league as soon as they announced this [Removed by Support].

This is absolutely true. However, I think even the majority of the players raising serious concern about the Harvest issue are so hooked on PoE, they will just keep playing anywas. Honestly, I am not sure, I am an exception. I strongly feel like this is a matter of principle and the right thing to do is what you described. And I am well aware, that me considering to play is a little pathetic. The pandemic most likely plays a role here for me, because there is just lots of time for gaming right now - and in lieu of a real competitor PoE seems to remain my go-to-game.

However currently I am not feeling lots of motivation. I designed my first own build in Ritual. I was very keen to develop it further, make it league start viable and so on. Now I can still go for the league start viability, but I would play knowing that all I could aim for would be a shadow of what the build was capable in Ritual.

Now you could argue that this underlines GGGs point of view, that Harvest makes for too strong items. However, the helmet which carries my build, cost me over a 100 Ex and lots of dull crafting. Actually the Maven Orb came closest to that experience GGG wants to sustain: close your eyes and slam. Harvest kept me motivated, you always have things to aim for. And yes, my build eventually felt overpowered; but I spend more time and currency than I ever did on a build before. Now you will very soon hit a plateau and from there on you can keep farming mindlessly for insane items or quit the league early, which lots of players will probably do.

When you read the Manifesto and some arguments in this thread, you get the feeling, Harvest just inflated overpowered gear and made it easiliy accessible for everyone. That's just not true. That kind of gear still required serious investment. Also the powercreep is based on that kind of gear. Now we have super strong content like the Maven Invitations with much worse gear.

It has been stated in many a post, that this can only result and a severely reduced build diversity. That might just be the saddest thing about all of this. PoE offers so much diversity in theory. Why would you push players into playing only what is fotm more than they already do anyways?

These are all valid concerns. They have been argued on point countless times. And I strongly find it disturbing that GGG does not at all adress these concerns. The same goes for the few people acting like people are just crying, because they get good gear taking away. That is not what this is about.

Shafirion, couldn't agree more. +1

I'm sure when looking at the raw numbers GGG thought Harvest was too powerful but they need to realize Harvest isn't in a vacuum. I'm sure what made the numbers look even worse to them is the sheer accessibility of harvest. If you make it incredibly easy to farm of course people are going to choose to only farm it.

Instead of nerfing harvest they need to fix the bug where if you don't talk to Oshabi you can just spam maps until you get the quest dialogue. Even this one step will make it so players have to actually explore a map to find harvest. Second, either remove harvest from Zana missions or make it extremely rare. People have rolled their atlas to get 30+ zana missions and are basically guaranteed a decent harvest. These two things combined together make harvest trivial to farm. The power of harvest isn't the problem. The trivialness of accessing it if you know what you're doing is.

I don't know how GGG thinks printing bases with split beasts is ok but harvest is too powerful. I'm guessing it's because only the 1% know how to do it efficiently and quickly enough to control the market.