Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

i agree with some changes, and i disagree with it being overpowered.
We still need to put hours upon hours, to get a ''good'' item, i have never crafted a mirror tier item before, and honestly, can't even do it with harvest as it is right now, and u want to nerf it to the ground, how kind.

why the fuck

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Saristas wrote:

the best way to show them this is a bad move, is simply to not play the next league when it starts, or at all, which I'm planning to do, I skipped heist and I felt great about it. and I quit this league as soon as they announced this [Removed by Support].

This is absolutely true. However, I think even the majority of the players raising serious concern about the Harvest issue are so hooked on PoE, they will just keep playing anywas. Honestly, I am not sure, I am an exception. I strongly feel like this is a matter of principle and the right thing to do is what you described. And I am well aware, that me considering to play is a little pathetic. The pandemic most likely plays a role here for me, because there is just lots of time for gaming right now - and in lieu of a real competitor PoE seems to remain my go-to-game.

However currently I am not feeling lots of motivation. I designed my first own build in Ritual. I was very keen to develop it further, make it league start viable and so on. Now I can still go for the league start viability, but I would play knowing that all I could aim for would be a shadow of what the build was capable in Ritual.

Now you could argue that this underlines GGGs point of view, that Harvest makes for too strong items. However, the helmet which carries my build, cost me over a 100 Ex and lots of dull crafting. Actually the Maven Orb came closest to that experience GGG wants to sustain: close your eyes and slam. Harvest kept me motivated, you always have things to aim for. And yes, my build eventually felt overpowered; but I spend more time and currency than I ever did on a build before. Now you will very soon hit a plateau and from there on you can keep farming mindlessly for insane items or quit the league early, which lots of players will probably do.

When you read the Manifesto and some arguments in this thread, you get the feeling, Harvest just inflated overpowered gear and made it easiliy accessible for everyone. That's just not true. That kind of gear still required serious investment. Also the powercreep is based on that kind of gear. Now we have super strong content like the Maven Invitations with much worse gear.

It has been stated in many a post, that this can only result and a severely reduced build diversity. That might just be the saddest thing about all of this. PoE offers so much diversity in theory. Why would you push players into playing only what is fotm more than they already do anyways?

These are all valid concerns. They have been argued on point countless times. And I strongly find it disturbing that GGG does not at all adress these concerns. The same goes for the few people acting like people are just crying, because they get good gear taking away. That is not what this is about.

Shafirion, couldn't agree more. +1

I'm sure when looking at the raw numbers GGG thought Harvest was too powerful but they need to realize Harvest isn't in a vacuum. I'm sure what made the numbers look even worse to them is the sheer accessibility of harvest. If you make it incredibly easy to farm of course people are going to choose to only farm it.

Instead of nerfing harvest they need to fix the bug where if you don't talk to Oshabi you can just spam maps until you get the quest dialogue. Even this one step will make it so players have to actually explore a map to find harvest. Second, either remove harvest from Zana missions or make it extremely rare. People have rolled their atlas to get 30+ zana missions and are basically guaranteed a decent harvest. These two things combined together make harvest trivial to farm. The power of harvest isn't the problem. The trivialness of accessing it if you know what you're doing is.

I don't know how GGG thinks printing bases with split beasts is ok but harvest is too powerful. I'm guessing it's because only the 1% know how to do it efficiently and quickly enough to control the market.

Welp, GGG isn't gonna see any of my money anymore. I didn't think I would actually play D2 Res when it released cause Harvest made it so fun to craft.. but I know now.. at least on there crafting and MFing is deterministic.

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Rellikor wrote:

either remove harvest from Zana missions or make it extremely rare

it's already extremely rare for some players like me. over the last week, i ran over 500 maps with my atlas set for harvest and i got only 2 harvests spawned today. one of them was the heart so it was completely useless. when i saw the first one, i thought it was awesome. a few more maps and i got the second. i thought my luck had changed. 50 maps later and nothing again. the mechanics behind harvest spawning is severely broken as a player that i party with, that has an almost identical atlas setup, gets at least 10 a day. i know this because i've seen it myself. then we run the same maps in my atlas and nothing... all day. harvest nerf gets put in place and i will stop playing completely and move on to less broken games where the staff actually care about players or lan games which i have lots of

Unless you’re min/maxing it is sufficiently rare to get Harvest by Zana but GGG doesn’t balance around what the majority of people are doing. They’ve made it possible for people to get up to 30 Zana choices at a time. Trust me when you’re getting 30 at a time Harvest is no longer sufficiently rare. They see these people able to craft in Harvest all day everyday so then GGG decides to balance around it. The majority of players are not doing this but they don’t care. I’ve played a ton this league without min/maxing my atlas for Zana harvest and have never seen a lot of the add/removes I need to complete my gear.

Last Epoch getting so much attention lately.

coincidence?

I've already posted my initial 2c on this, but I've been keeping this change in mind while playing over the last couple weeks.

Since then, As I'm sick of alt spamming my staff to get a T1 mod (maybe 2000 so far) I decided to start a new character that required a lot of expensive gear. I don't have a lot, maybe 15 exalt, and I earned about another 25 along the way. As such, this requires a lot of harvest crafting for add / remove. I've been running mostly Haewark Hamlet and maybe 1 in 10 maps gets a sacred grove. Out of that, I've gotten I think 2 add remove which were not even for the mods I needed. As such, I'm still trying to perfect the gear, not to mention trying to make my jewels have better mods.

This is super slow going and incredibly boring. As such, I just don't want to play. Progress in making my gear better is bad enough as it is. Taking this crafting away (and we all know with the proposed changes it'll be useless) is giving me no incentive to play beyond my usual skill cap. Right now, I'm only pulling about 12M dps and I've yet to kill Maven (I know, right?). I can't get past the final stage. I haven't been able to complete the Breach invitation and I die half the time on the elder / shaper guardian invitations. I NEED a build with like 30M+ dps if you guys put out content like this.