Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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hidden_gobsek wrote:

I think there is too much deterministic behavior in mirror duping and beastcrafting.

let's be brave and say that we do not deserve that slamming mirror to a decent gear must create the same copy in 100% of time.

I think we need to add here some RNG, so that you have 50% of creating a copy or destroying the item.

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I like the idea, too much deterministic and powerful. Imagine having mirror tier item 10s after making the first character. Too bad, must nerf!

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OdinNguyen wrote:

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hidden_gobsek wrote:

I think there is too much deterministic behavior in mirror duping and beastcrafting.

let's be brave and say that we do not deserve that slamming mirror to a decent gear must create the same copy in 100% of time.

I think we need to add here some RNG, so that you have 50% of creating a copy or destroying the item.

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I like the idea, too much deterministic and powerful. Imagine having mirror tier item 10s after making the first character. Too bad, must nerf!

Just ban all who owns mirror tier gear as poe craft abusers. Its literally small % of playerbase. Who cares.

Problem solved.
Why nerf game, if can just do this.

99.9% will be happy anyway xD

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Snipemaster wrote:

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Vandurman wrote:

Yesterday this thread has 475 page's, today - 460....

Looks like they started deleting some comments... not a good look for a company that supposedly listens to there "community"

GGG haven't listed to their playerbase in years, they just do whatever Chris wants.

I've had a comment removed too, lovely to see censorship deployed by GGG. I've been playing last epoch since the manifesto, and have been speaking to a developer about some tweaks, such a breath of fresh air!

Played years already, always liked make own builds rather than google and try 1:1 copy some of them most strongest builds that exist at the very moment. This is almost each time limited by the need of one or few insanely much more expensive item, than rest of gear.

Or was, before garden crafts, but such is soon to be flushed down the toilet again.

During harvest league, I agree it got out of hands, but I think it was more about the seed system, than craft mods available. It messed up the market, could get rich sick fast selling seeds, also for those who bought and farmed specific seeds only, got item mods too easy. Way it works now, fixed that, which was good.

In current form, garden gives a possibility for bit more casual players, to create some specific items needed for random tryout builds. Is just stupid if some item costs like 70ex+, while others are 1c-1ex, and the item is such that divides if the whole skill can work at all or not.

In 3.14 garden will be trashed pretty much totally again, when it comes to item crafts. So again them random tryouts will straight end up on trash bin. So is again just less diversity in builds, as usual when nerf hammer hits the table, is not good. The way garden works atm, and how rare it still is if not farm it 110% of time, still makes item crafting kinda slow, and a rare treat to get even 1 needed item fully done. For bit more casual players, it's simply the only way for accessing some specific modded items.

In current form, garden does not give mirrors or item worth of them, for everyone in few weeks, as some here think. It gives more options for more casual players, this is the bad thing in trashing it again. For the top few % of players, upcoming garden changes won't anyways really change much... Them will surely still get their sick expensive gear fast, for their best of few current op builds, no matter what. Will go as usual: some finds a way again to be immortal and 1-hit everyone, posts it on some forum, people copy it in few days... while more and more items and skills become obsolete by nerfs, or even at best, it greatly narrows the amount of items and char classes, that can use. Majority of skills already are just simply bad choices, far over 90% of them, and have been a long time already. Garden was a nice push to other way.

from my point of view.. that harvest crafting gave me a reason to play again, like some new surge of energy with "i can make some nice items for my character" in mind.. it is sad that it is goin to change. rly sad.. - now i have to "rush" and do as much as i can before change.. i hate to play like that and yet im doin it..

Harvest crafting got me back into POE after like a 2 year break, having more fun with the game then I ever have. Nerfing it really just kills my hype to keep playing honestly, its just going to keep the top 0.01% at the top and totally screw over any normal players

Being someone who usually builds 1 or 2 characters a season gutting harvest like this really puts a damper on any crafts that i would like to do. From my perspective the best route to take with harvest would to make it more like syntesis. Make all items only able to handle 1 harvest craft and give it the mod "of harvest" and make that the only mod on the item harvest can change after its crafted onto the item. This would still allow all mods and craft types and would allow you to really round out an item rather than build it from the ground up. For example you have an item with 3 suffix, cold damage prefix and evasion prefixes, Augment life would make this item Perfect. Then you would only be able to modify the life augment from there forward. Allows people who dont have 1000 hours to craft to still play and make there own gear rather than farming the whole time they play to spend 8 ex on a "good" item. Still gives the satisfaction of making ones own gear.

I bet Harvest is going to be a banned word in the upcoming Preview Stream, GGG is really messing things up a lot and trying to swipe everything under the carpet, which to some degree is understandable, but why not talk to the Community instead, also an Interview in the Preview with some1 who sides always with GGG on every change doesn't do it any justice.

From another thread

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kuciol wrote:

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Anngrat wrote:

actually, yes

Its proven that in order to keep people interested you dont reward them consistently with deterministic rewards, you reward them sometimes. As bad as it may seem RNG is the way to keep players playing. Im to lazy to search for those studies so you can do it on your own.

There is a flaw with your logic.
Harvest crafting is derteministic as in "You control what is affected" but there is still a lot of RNG involved.
Unless there is a craft "Change Elemental 1 resistance to Tier 1" or "Reroll numbers in affixes to the highest", there is still a lot RNG involved.

You need the right seeds (Quite easy, but still RNG) and THEN get the right craft with those seeds (Likely, but RNG again). On top of all that, you need to get lucky so your craft turns out like you hoped for (More RNG). ALL OF THIS is behind the map, so you might run 3-4 maps before 1 Harvest Groove.

People are using "Derterministic" a bit too loosely. Even Harvest has lots of RNG involved, but its controled RNG.
"In mathematics, computer science and physics, a deterministic system is a system in which no randomness is involved in the development of future states of the system. A deterministic model will thus always produce the same output from a given starting condition or initial state."

You can manipulate an item's affixes to reduc the RNG to almost nothing and a very few of them turns to deterministic. But those require the proper base items.

"ALL OF THIS is behind the map, so you might run 3-4 maps before 1 Harvest Groove."

After 100+ maps (60 atolls) yesterday and get 1 harvest looks like rng its bit higher... now.



GGG have lost touch with reality, they are watching the biggest guild and their favorite Havoc who so easily makes 10 mirrors in 1 day of leagues, thinking everyone has the same drop.

Nobody takes up the topic that poe literally scolds you for being a solo player, nobody tries to balance the advantage that comes from playing in a team.

As 6 you get first ex in first h of league. In the meantime, as a solo player you have your first ex, something between 10-20 hours of play. From 1 ex in frist hours you can basicly make 1 mirr in 3-5h by fliping as f guild.



But according to GGG, this problem is not deterministic reward and does not affect the balance of the game KEKW