Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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SuperDrop wrote:

Soooo my anger goes just above levels. farmed whole week for 50ex

got the boots. spammed tailwind and then some random hunter pierce mod. then i bought maven orb wich is ridiculusly over priced. slaped. boom tailwind gone.

so how the fak i should craft in this game if grinding gear games disables remove add target crafts ??

ggg what are you thinking ? this is not normal at all. this is gambling. this should be reported asap.

The experience you had with crafting here should be seen as the 'norm'. Most players are at this level of crafting and the systems that exist are making players gamble on their items. This is GOOD.

Don't take it away.

I do think you should think about your crafting a bit though. If you've already put most of your currency into your craft and the next gamble has the potential to erase all your progress, you should stop there until you can afford to make a replacement if it goes wrong.

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Incarcerated wrote:

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SuperDrop wrote:

Soooo my anger goes just above levels. farmed whole week for 50ex

got the boots. spammed tailwind and then some random hunter pierce mod. then i bought maven orb wich is ridiculusly over priced. slaped. boom tailwind gone.

so how the fak i should craft in this game if grinding gear games disables remove add target crafts ??

ggg what are you thinking ? this is not normal at all. this is gambling. this should be reported asap.

The experience you had with crafting here should be seen as the 'norm'. Most players are at this level of crafting and the systems that exist are making players gamble on their items. This is GOOD.

Don't take it away.

I do think you should think about your crafting a bit though. If you've already put most of your currency into your craft and the next gamble has the potential to erase all your progress, you should stop there until you can afford to make a replacement if it goes wrong.

what you mean ? stop there ? and replacement. what are you talking about lol. i want second pair of boots.

i never recraft my current wearable boots. wich costed me to make whole month and over 200 exalt wich i saved long time.
take a not to normal player who still havent seen exalts and not even using itemfilter..
im pretty sure you dont know nothing about crafting. profile is public. and yours too. gl talking nosense. take away. harvest is must have , 80% of players spam harvest content for remove adds. just shhh. kay

The harvest has kept me playing this leagua way longer then I otherwise would as there was always another step to min-max the build to be made. Would I keep trying if the chance to succeed was 0.001% per item? Hell no.. and I strongly doubt waste majority of players would.

Don't get the reasoning behind the announced change really. Why would anyone close his eyes when exalting an item, scared the result would be bad, when there's usually like 97%-99% chance it WILL be bad? Either someone extremely naive or very bad in math..

I also find the Discord trading system a really cool addition to the game btw. :)

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SuperDrop wrote:

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Incarcerated wrote:

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SuperDrop wrote:

Soooo my anger goes just above levels. farmed whole week for 50ex

got the boots. spammed tailwind and then some random hunter pierce mod. then i bought maven orb wich is ridiculusly over priced. slaped. boom tailwind gone.

so how the fak i should craft in this game if grinding gear games disables remove add target crafts ??

ggg what are you thinking ? this is not normal at all. this is gambling. this should be reported asap.

The experience you had with crafting here should be seen as the 'norm'. Most players are at this level of crafting and the systems that exist are making players gamble on their items. This is GOOD.

Don't take it away.

I do think you should think about your crafting a bit though. If you've already put most of your currency into your craft and the next gamble has the potential to erase all your progress, you should stop there until you can afford to make a replacement if it goes wrong.

what you mean ? stop there ? and replacement. what are you talking about lol. i want second pair of boots.

i never recraft my current wearable boots. wich costed me to make whole month and over 200 exalt wich i saved long time.
take a not to normal player who still havent seen exalts and not even using itemfilter..
im pretty sure you dont know nothing about crafting. profile is public. and yours too. gl talking nosense. take away. harvest is must have , 80% of players spam harvest content for remove adds. just shhh. kay

I assumed you didn't have another pair of boots because you were so angry. My bad :)
Your experience is normal though. You're assuming that new players without lootfilters are 'normal' but that's not the case.
Most players now use harvest and other crafting methods and don't get what they want. And that's fine.
Removing so much of harvest's utility as they're suggesting really fucks up how willing people are to try crafting instead of just buying items.

I like those changes. Probably because i don't have 4 wifes, 7 children, 3 jobs.

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Well i'm 45 but as i'm the owner of a business, i don't really have time to do much outside of work... I'm not that old, but older than most of PoE players probably...

This is also why Harvest nerfs will impact greatly how i can enjoy the game in the future, if i'll still play it or not and probably won't support it further if i don't play that much...[/quote]


Well...First off. Hats off to running your own bizz. Not easy in the current economy. (Im being serious)

Also good on you that you still dig gaming!

Being self-employed would mean that you have to be organised well though no?

If you can re-organise your approach to casual PoE by adjusting farmingstrats, you should hypothetically still be able to get going quickly and well into endgame.

If lady luck smiles upon you, you could also drop a mirror :D Not that that ever happens to us non-streamers but ye know.

Also league mechanics every league usually provide great, fast means of acquiring currency that you can either use to slam those T1 mods eyes closed or invest in gear upgrades.

Not sure what progression you prefer but yea.

Anyhow. All the best to you. Game is just a game.

Regardless of where players fall on the Harvest crafting decision spectrum, everyone should agree that the issue was handled poorly by GGG.
Review the timeline:

1. Harvest League introduced the farming and crafting. Players complained about the process – for many reasons: being tedious, too powerful, etc.

2. Post that league, we assume GGG reviewed the league and mechanics usage. I would also assume they reviewed many of the comments made about the league. Players asked for Harvest to go Core and others asked for it not to go to Core. Many of the same comments we are reading now.

3. Heist League opened – no Harvest – so players just moved on. Some still pined for Harvest, but it appeared GGG decided it didn’t fit their concepts.

4. And now Ritual League – with Harvest mechanics and the Atlas updates to support it. Everyone would have to agree that GGG decided deterministic crafting was needed and they implemented the process in Core. What other reason could explain the implementation?

5. Then the update by Chris which was a complete change midstream. Why? They had months to review and go over the prior Harvest League. My thought is they didn’t realize the effect item trading (to trade the crafts) would have or occur at the level they were. Not sure how they didn’t see this coming. I would guess that many of the players that are crafting are not even playing the Harvest farming boredom. Personally, I have done well over a 100 harvest spawns and haven’t seen anywhere near the number of high end crafts needed to outfit a character.

6. Now many players are not happy with the gutting of Harvest. If this was the plan all along, then GGG deserves all the stick they get. Or, as I believe, they just didn’t realize the TFT/trading effect, they miscalculated big time. Either way, it shows they are out of touch with the player base and their own game.

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Fenoch wrote:

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KittenSmasher wrote:

It's really interesting to see how most of the people against these nerfs on this thread are either in tones of sadness, disappointment, suggestion with new/dif ideas and adult discussion, or explanations of how everyone can still enjoy the game with a middle ground.

Then the few voices who pop in and agree with the nerfs are aggressive, toxic and selfish. Summing up their posts with "git gud" and "deal with it."

This is the 1% that GGG would rather have as their audience? I guess that does indeed say a lot about the future of the game.

Okay. Ima try not to be "toxic" here.

Do you not see the irony of your post? The "tinfoil-hatness" of it?

I am not a 1%. Not even by a lightyear or 2.

I simply think most of people take this nerf WAY too serious.

Have you bothered with reading more of your alleged constructive criticism anti-nerf comments?

"GGG is like Blizzard"
"GGG is disconnected from its playerbase!"
"I agree GGG is disconnected. Finally people open their eyes to the bad business practices"
"My wallet will speak next league"
"Im gonna play something else instead because..."

Yea. No tinfoil. Super constructive and logical. Super polite too.

It is also that the underlying rational of arguments partially is flawed.
Yes, removing harvest as was PRIOR to the atlas socketing changes would have been devestating and likely as close to as bad as some people make it out to be.

Regardless of harvest, you can now target farm areas for specific things, drops, temples etc.

Never before could you farm currency and items etc so well targeted and quickly and easily but apparently harvest crafting is THE most important thing.

I suggest harvest crafting should not have been in the game again at all. Or already nerfed as it is going to be. We wouldnt be having this conversation and instead people would harvest craft and be happy they can at all.

Yes nothing says that atlas passives will not change / nerfed because it is too easy to farm currencies...

That said, even with atlas passives, it is not because i have more orbs that i will slam those on an item with not certainty of its outcome...

I would prefer grind for real usable loot than grinding for orbs that will give no upgrade in the long term.

If GGG was up to the task of changing loot for less loot but better rolled loot and give orbs that able to target craft some affixes but where the drop is really rare it would be better for players that don't give a shit of the economy and the 1%...

Well, just to elaborate some more on the TFT issue from my point of view.

I'm not at all jealous of the players utilizing TFT to organize and profit massively from it in a way that's simply not possible for me as a "solo + regular trade" type of player.


My problem starts when GGG balances game systems around TFT or similar 3rd party communities, which basically means these systems will be worthless to everyone not participating in these communities.

If you don't like the impact that players, using these advanced forms of coordination, have of the game & economy, then target their activity directly.

If you balance systems around trading harvest freely, then implement systems that allow for a much larger portion of the player base to do that.


This is just bad now as a crafting mechanic for the average player that doesn't trade harvest crafts but tries to improve their own equipment.

You can do better than that.



And as a disclaimer:

I hardly used it myself this league as I just learn how to craft.
I learned a lot this league, but also spend most time engaging with harvest by alt-tabbing to studying the craft of exile website and similar resources, instead of playing the game.
I did craft a few very bad explode chests and upgraded my equipment a little, but spent a lot of time doing it.

More experienced players arebe able to make much better use of it than I am.