Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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Ruffleberg wrote:

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DeathProfessorHeisenberg wrote:

Man, don't worry about the hateful comments. It's just an eco chamber. The developer is GRINDING Gear Games, the genre is hack n slash ARPG. Yet people don't want to grind. When they introduced harvest, I quit the game and came back this league after playing for a day or two in other leagues. The game is not for every one, just like Dark Souls isn't for every one. It has a certain model and certain dynamics to it.

The devs knew they were making a huge mistake when they introduced harvest for the first time. The nerfs now SHOULD have been in place before re-introducing harvest this league. Anyways devs are staying true to their original game mentality and design. And it takes heart and balls to do this. Sure they might lose a bit of profit next league but this is good for the game in the long term. And harvest is still very strong, people are just mad because of mob mentality.

It is hard to take your opinion seriously when you main minion builds. Of course you don't need harvest to clear all content.

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Incarcerated wrote:

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Ruffleberg wrote:

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DeathProfessorHeisenberg wrote:

Man, don't worry about the hateful comments. It's just an eco chamber. The developer is GRINDING Gear Games, the genre is hack n slash ARPG. Yet people don't want to grind. When they introduced harvest, I quit the game and came back this league after playing for a day or two in other leagues. The game is not for every one, just like Dark Souls isn't for every one. It has a certain model and certain dynamics to it.

The devs knew they were making a huge mistake when they introduced harvest for the first time. The nerfs now SHOULD have been in place before re-introducing harvest this league. Anyways devs are staying true to their original game mentality and design. And it takes heart and balls to do this. Sure they might lose a bit of profit next league but this is good for the game in the long term. And harvest is still very strong, people are just mad because of mob mentality.

It is hard to take your opinion seriously when you main minion builds. Of course you don't need harvest to clear all content.

This is a big issue for sure. Minion builds don't require so much gear to get to t16 but a lot of attack builds require a well crafted weapon just for yellow tier maps. The imbalanced gear requirements for different builds is why Harvest is popular. It makes a lot of otherwise unplayable builds playable (on SSF especially) and affordable.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

I believe a better alternative would be
"We are nerfing the Harvest crafting, but we'll make sure the other builds options won't require that much crafting to be viable. This is to balance necessity of Mirrior tier item for other class/builds"

If this is the intent, I'm all for it. Buff the underused skill/classes so MOST build don't require those improbable items, nerf the harvest in exchange to limit the amount of end-tier items.

This would allow meme builds to work with mirror tier item, without making off-meta build impossible to achieve by the average players.

I believe this is the best approch. But it only works if the Monster do get buff again in return. Wishfull thinking there.

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Fenoch wrote:

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Azarhiel wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I've beat sirus before with 300K DPS. Cant speak on maven I suppose her vortex's would pollute screen too much with a zDPS build. anyway most fights are about not making mistakes not DPS. One dude beat uber elder at lvl 30 a few leagues back... Anyway, DPS just make it easier because mistakes dont compound nor flasks run out.

As far as Harvest the most powerful mods have no tiers like explody ... just add phys until you get it and meld on another OP influence with wakening orb so stop pretending like tons of RNG is involved. Most powerful mods have 1 or 2 tagged tiers you just add/remmove and GG. Phys weapons with like 14 tiers and 3 phys mods needed are the big exception and are hard to make even with harvest. As you are on older player you should understand RNG and grinding is what we signed up for not add remove the item editor Harvest is.

As an older player with a 70h week job and some other duties in real life i can't commit to play more than what i did over two month and being burnt out in the process...

Yes for some parts harvest is a way to edit you item, but never prevent you from making a mistake and ruining your gear so it is not an item editor per se.

I make mistakes because i'm not 25 yo and i don't have the reflex to dodge sirus shit all the time.

I don't mind RNG in loot and grinding as i do just that on RPG's, but i do mind that a crafting system is not a gambling system, and in PoE, everything outside of harvest is only gambling for now.

The only way the orb system could complement a crafting is by narrowing down the tiers of mods depending on ILVL, but it will never be a crafting system as a whole.

And on a side note :

Everything in harvest is random (wrote in every line of every carft i saw)
Gardens are random
Seeds are random

So i don't know you can't see the layers of RNG in Harvest, but i do see them and make it a middle ground but not yet good enough crafting system.

Last Epoch as a pseudo deterministic crafting system with mods (Max tier) not being able to be crafted
Chronicon has a pseudo deterministic crafting system and you can lock mods in place.

Those does not make those games less attractive and more casual... (And i allready play both of those but don't have the same appeal that of PoE)

Wait. You have a 70h work week yet play 5hrs per day?

Interesting. Let us do the math here [Removed by Support]

70hrs/week breaks down to 14hrs per day.

Topping up your 5hrs per day to play the game that gives us:

19hrs/day that you are busy with work/gaming. Leaving 5hrs of sleep per day.

Assuming you don't just fall asleep straight away, we are looking at 4.5hrs of hypothetical sleep/day.

But wait there is more!

You will likely have to eat/shower/get ready/get to work so that is roughly another hour.

Meaning you have about 3.5hrs of sleep/day.

Sure. Sounds totally feasable, realistic and likely something most casual gamers do that have real jobs and a family.

You then also find the time in all of that to navigate to the forums and repeatedly post non-sensical, boo-hoo- "My ice trap fire pen molten shell glacial cascade caustic arrow miner" build is not possible anymore now.

yea makes sense.


Edit: Now I could be mistaken and you meant 70hrs week as in 70hrs/7 days. Maybe things work different where you live. [Removed by Support]

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Fenoch wrote:

Wait. You have a 70h work week yet play 5hrs per day?

Interesting. Let us do the math here [Removed by Support]

70hrs/week breaks down to 14hrs per day.

Topping up your 5hrs per day to play the game that gives us:

19hrs/day that you are busy with work/gaming. Leaving 5hrs of sleep per day.

Assuming you don't just fall asleep straight away, we are looking at 4.5hrs of hypothetical sleep/day.

But wait there is more!

You will likely have to eat/shower/get ready/get to work so that is roughly another hour.

Meaning you have about 3.5hrs of sleep/day.

Sure. Sounds totally feasable, realistic and likely something most casual gamers do that have real jobs and a family.

You then also find the time in all of that to navigate to the forums and repeatedly post non-sensical, boo-hoo- "My ice trap fire pen molten shell glacial cascade caustic arrow miner" build is not possible anymore now.

yea makes sense.


Edit: Now I could be mistaken and you meant 70hrs week as in 70hrs/7 days. Maybe things work different where you live. [Removed by Support]

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Fenoch wrote:

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Azarhiel wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I've beat sirus before with 300K DPS. Cant speak on maven I suppose her vortex's would pollute screen too much with a zDPS build. anyway most fights are about not making mistakes not DPS. One dude beat uber elder at lvl 30 a few leagues back... Anyway, DPS just make it easier because mistakes dont compound nor flasks run out.

As far as Harvest the most powerful mods have no tiers like explody ... just add phys until you get it and meld on another OP influence with wakening orb so stop pretending like tons of RNG is involved. Most powerful mods have 1 or 2 tagged tiers you just add/remmove and GG. Phys weapons with like 14 tiers and 3 phys mods needed are the big exception and are hard to make even with harvest. As you are on older player you should understand RNG and grinding is what we signed up for not add remove the item editor Harvest is.

As an older player with a 70h week job and some other duties in real life i can't commit to play more than what i did over two month and being burnt out in the process...

Yes for some parts harvest is a way to edit you item, but never prevent you from making a mistake and ruining your gear so it is not an item editor per se.

I make mistakes because i'm not 25 yo and i don't have the reflex to dodge sirus shit all the time.

I don't mind RNG in loot and grinding as i do just that on RPG's, but i do mind that a crafting system is not a gambling system, and in PoE, everything outside of harvest is only gambling for now.

The only way the orb system could complement a crafting is by narrowing down the tiers of mods depending on ILVL, but it will never be a crafting system as a whole.

And on a side note :

Everything in harvest is random (wrote in every line of every carft i saw)
Gardens are random
Seeds are random

So i don't know you can't see the layers of RNG in Harvest, but i do see them and make it a middle ground but not yet good enough crafting system.

Last Epoch as a pseudo deterministic crafting system with mods (Max tier) not being able to be crafted
Chronicon has a pseudo deterministic crafting system and you can lock mods in place.

Those does not make those games less attractive and more casual... (And i allready play both of those but don't have the same appeal that of PoE)

Wait. You have a 70h work week yet play 5hrs per day?

Interesting. Let us do the math here [Removed by Support]

70hrs/week breaks down to 14hrs per day.

Topping up your 5hrs per day to play the game that gives us:

19hrs/day that you are busy with work/gaming. Leaving 5hrs of sleep per day.

Assuming you don't just fall asleep straight away, we are looking at 4.5hrs of hypothetical sleep/day.

But wait there is more!

You will likely have to eat/shower/get ready/get to work so that is roughly another hour.

Meaning you have about 3.5hrs of sleep/day.

Sure. Sounds totally feasable, realistic and likely something most casual gamers do that have real jobs and a family.

You then also find the time in all of that to navigate to the forums and repeatedly post non-sensical, boo-hoo- "My ice trap fire pen molten shell glacial cascade caustic arrow miner" build is not possible anymore now.

yea makes sense.


Edit: Now I could be mistaken and you meant 70hrs week as in 70hrs/7 days. Maybe things work different where you live. [Removed by Support]

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Azarhiel wrote:

Yes let's do the math :

70h 7 days a week that's 10h per day
5h to play that's 15h
2h for food / health care that 17h
7h of sleep that's 24h...

My slave country is France and i'm my own boss...

I don't know who you think you are, but next time don't make un-educated guesses !!