Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

Huge step backwards

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N4rk0tyk wrote:

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Fenoch wrote:

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noheal wrote:

this is a really crazy change...


I hope they take this feedback, and focus on fixing the game performance rather tham nerfting the few features players like.

So you joined the game 8 years ago, havent spent a single dime except maybe for a stashtab. Yet you opt in to complain after playing a free game for 8 years not spending a single cent.

Just wow.

And how is his opinion any worse than opinion of someone who spent money? He has a right to be equally concerned as anyone else. There are civilized countries where average monthly salary is less than 600$, you think that it is somehow easy to come up with 60$ for online game?

I am 100% against this change to harvest, I think it is ggg bending their knees to TFT discord as someone said on Reddit. Instead of fixing an issue with craft trading they are trying to make harvest complete junk.

Now, please feel free to invalidate my opinion based on amount of money I’ve spend on supporting this game, but I will give you fair warning, it’s over 3000$ and there is plenty more in my wallet to be spent but I think that if this nerf will be going live as is they will not see a dime from me at least.

How you ask ?

Simple:

Imagine you give me a free tangerine or 2. I eat it. Then tell you it wasnt as tasty as I had hoped and I would like you to now give me 10 Euros for my effort.

Hint: It is a metaphor.

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Using currency items like Exalted Orbs or Chaos Orbs on your gear is a powerful, risky and exciting way to improve it.

This sentiment was summed up by a member of our design team who recently said "We don't want to take away the feeling of closing your eyes and Exalting an item, scared to see whether you ruined it or not."

Sorry Chris, these are viewpoints are antiquated. They describe gambling, not crafting.
All they accomplish in this manifesto is to signal to the community just how out of touch GGG is.

More troubling for me is this -- with the re-introduction of Harvest in the Ritual League, I really thought you were taking the player base in a specific, carefully chosen direction for crafting.

A re-cap (& my reactions):
GGG
... introduced Harvest but had misgivings about crafting being too deterministic -- ok, fair enough
... took harvest out of the game and then started planning its reintroduction later -- good, no knee jerk changes, time to evaluate and plan properly
... reintroduced Harvest -- awesome
... and very shortly thereafter, nerfed Harvest to smithereens -- wait, what???

Adding my recommendation to listen to Matth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdpA_xHXhEA

And that should have been the title of this manifesto: Meaningful crafting only for the 1% again.

The harvest nerf would have made some sense if there was anything resembling crafting other than the current crafting bench. Everything is mostly gambling. The only thing that is affected is how bad the odds are. PoE could be so much greater in its vision if there are ways for utilizing knowledge and skill in crafting.


RNG definitely has a core place that can make the game fun but most currency has like 0.1% chance to give a relevant output. And for a BIS result its probably 0.01% considering the pool of mods. Thats basically impossible. If there was the exact same item to have to slam an exalt on, it would take 10000 exalts to get BIS item and atleast a few hundred before getting a semi acceptable result. And thats only for 1 mod. Anyone who uses an exalt with the intention of crafting and item when trade is available is just being irrational. I don't understand how anyone can feel excited about using exalts or especially chaos.

In D2 the most exciting parts of crafting were very deterministic but grindy - runewords. With the number of axes of variations possible in PoE it has not been exciting to use basic currency for a really long time.

Fennoch I'm not entirely sure if you're a troll or not, but you seem to be.

I haven't enjoyed the game a lot lately before harvest crafting became a thing, and I haven't even crafted myself, just enjoying the availability of items on the market, even late into a league, where it normally would be dead and you'd barely find anyone playing.

You talk so much about money that it makes me wonder if you think that criticising a free game even if you never spend money on it is not allowed. If you spend a lot of time in a game you get a feeling for what is a good change of moving forward and what isn't.

I have spent nearly as much money as I have hours in the game, am I allowed to criticise the game, or do I need to have bought every single supporter pack and own every single MTX to talk about a game I fell in love with again after nearly a year break because it had become very tedious to play?

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helldunkel wrote:

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Fenoch wrote:

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namespace wrote:

Breaking my many, many year forum silence to point out that this kinda sucks. All this is doing is, one again, catering to the absolute top 0.01%, streamers and 15 hour a day players, complaining that the plebs may perhaps get a chance to get some ok items; Not mirror-tier (come on lol) but like, influence and some good rolls.

It's weird how progress like shards are good, but progress like tinkering on an item without bricking it is bad? I guess thanks for saving me the MTX costs by posting this early, I and friends were getting back into the game because filthy casuals such as ourselves with only 1-3 thousand hours were actually able to build some neat stuff without being 100% glued to the meta and just trading all day.

And as others said, "This sentiment was summed up by a member of our design team who recently said "We don't want to take away the feeling of closing your eyes and Exalting an item, scared to see whether you ruined it or not." - This is AWFUL this is "Don't you have phones" no one does this I have been playing since alpha and I've exa slammed like... A jewel once with three good mods because I just didn't care about mod4 because of an odd build.

Same goes for you. Many many many years of enjoying a free game. Yet you feel the need to jump on the complaint bandwagon. Cool-. You should know better and know that this not even half as bad as the crying babies make it look to be.

So, you're just being antagonistic because... reasons? Regardless of the status of the game as F2P or how many bucks have you spent on it, you are entitled to an opinion about it, about the changes it undergoes, and how they affect your ability to play and enjoy the game. That, my antagonistic non-friend, is called feedback. And it's something GGG DESPERATELY needs to listen to. Filtering random comments antagonizing other players, like yours :)

Not really. I just dont think that this breaks the game for anyone at all.

The game is in such a fantastic place right now that even as a casual player and WITHOUT harvest you can nearly do all the content that is on offer.

Sure. You cannot play vaal molten shell moltenstrike cold to fire conversion inquisitor as it wont be feasable but there are SO MANY different builds out there, with fantastic guides and incremental item recommendations it makes the game a breeze.

Harvest was about to brick the game.

Take a market: Ups and downs yes? Economy? yes.

Now give everyone a solid chance to get perfect items for their respective builds.

What happens to the market? It dies. Literally only mirror items would be for sale as nobody would need anything else but.

Everyone smashes every boss in the game in seconds. Powercreep, moneycreep.
End of PoE. Just like D3 and just like many others before. Perfect items should be a thing of beauty, not a thing of a socialist commune.

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Fenoch wrote:

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helldunkel wrote:

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Fenoch wrote:

Same goes for you. Many many many years of enjoying a free game. Yet you feel the need to jump on the complaint bandwagon. Cool-. You should know better and know that this not even half as bad as the crying babies make it look to be.

So, you're just being antagonistic because... reasons? Regardless of the status of the game as F2P or how many bucks have you spent on it, you are entitled to an opinion about it, about the changes it undergoes, and how they affect your ability to play and enjoy the game. That, my antagonistic non-friend, is called feedback. And it's something GGG DESPERATELY needs to listen to. Filtering random comments antagonizing other players, like yours :)

Not really. I just dont think that this breaks the game for anyone at all.

The game is in such a fantastic place right now that even as a casual player and WITHOUT harvest you can nearly do all the content that is on offer.

Sure. You cannot play vaal molten shell moltenstrike cold to fire conversion inquisitor as it wont be feasable but there are SO MANY different builds out there, with fantastic guides and incremental item recommendations it makes the game a breeze.

Harvest was about to brick the game.

Take a market: Ups and downs yes? Economy? yes.

Now give everyone a solid chance to get perfect items for their respective builds.

What happens to the market? It dies. Literally only mirror items would be for sale as nobody would need anything else but.

Everyone smashes every boss in the game in seconds. Powercreep, moneycreep.
End of PoE. Just like D3 and just like many others before. Perfect items should be a thing of beauty, not a thing of a socialist commune.

You sound like a person who never played Path of Exile.

I actually came back to the game after skipping a couple leagues because I wasn't happy with the direction GGG was taking. Then Ritual rolls around with all these awesome changes! Yay, a casual like me can craft some cool items? Oh no, time to nerf it.

Guess it's back to playing other games.

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Fenoch wrote:

How you ask ?

Simple:

Imagine you give me a free tangerine or 2. I eat it. Then tell you it wasnt as tasty as I had hoped and I would like you to now give me 10 Euros for my effort.

Hint: It is a metaphor.

I disagree. The majority of players likely have not spent a dime on the game. It's people like you, myself, and others who want to and are able to support the game that do so. However, I believe that the majority should have at least some voice in the end result if the game is to be in any way shape or form community driven. I feel that in this case, they listened to maybe a few streamers, saw a few Reddit rants, and made an opinion based on that, and their own ideas of what this game should be. I'm confident that, were they to open a poll, this would be 80% against this change or higher. In all likelihood based on the overall responses I have read, we are looking at upwards of 90+% who disapprove, and that includes many of us who have spent money on the game.

I'm not going to sit there and call Chris names, or anybody else. I have moderated for videogames for years as a free service, and I know precisely how much of a pain it can be at times. I will, however, strongly recommend against this change. Not just because I do emphatically dislike it, but because the vast majority of the community is in much the same situation. Some are ready to walk off, and I don't want that for this game anymore than you do.

Like it or not, non or low-paying customers will always be the majority in a game like this. Their voice has a say because without them there is not much game left, especially when people who have spent upwards of $600-800 USD on this game feel much the same.

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Carthuun wrote:

I actually came back to the game after skipping a couple leagues because I wasn't happy with the direction GGG was taking. Then Ritual rolls around with all these awesome changes! Yay, a casual like me can craft some cool items? Oh no, time to nerf it.

Guess it's back to playing other games.

That's literally me too, going back to other games and to think I was about to buy the 480$ Supporter pack because I was enjoying the game again. I guess it goes into buying some other games. :)