Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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Jadran wrote:

So wait, several months ago, before Harvest even existed, PoE was a bad game? Because this thread makes it sound like it will be a bad game now after Harvest is nerfed. I don't get this logic. I'd assume tons of people had fun with it before Harvest.

It's like: imagine you eat ice cream for the 1st time in your life. It's absolutely phenomenal. Now, several months later your parents come and say - no more ice cream for you son, it's actually not good for your teeth and overall health. So yeah, most kids would throw a tantrum here. But does it mean life berfore ice cream was terrible?

Exactly. TBH I don't understand why they implemented harvest in the core game in such a powerful state if the plan was to nerf it to the ground after one league, but the fact is people are dealing with the gambling nature of the games crafting system for a long time now. People who don't like it just don't use it or quit long ago.

This the thing. I'm fine with the nerfs, but those who are not could send a message by quitting the game, but we know that's not gonna happen. Players will bitch and whine, they'll say they'll quit, but those saying they'll quit are the ones queueing as soon as the next league starts.

That's why GGG does stuff like that. They know their players. They know only a handful will quit, and most will quit for different reasons.

I really dislike this change since I enjoy Harvest quite a lot, but what can you do if the developers don't like it in its current state. I will probably play 3.14 but I'm going to miss my target annuls and augs or rem/add on influenced items. Anyways, excited for next league's announcement!

I think that the crafting options from harvest should be tradeable like beasts with the Bestiary Orb. Using a discord server for this gives some people a huge advantage since they are able to spam the valuable crafts while non-members are limited to what they and friends happen to find. I overall agree with the changes but we NEED an in-game way of trading these crafts.

I'm a new player started on harvest league, to be honest even a new player like me knows how strong harvest is. I've learnet a lot this league, harvest is absolutly a great system that make everyone could craft mirror tir gears. Core crafting method is so weak currently that players have to reply on harvest to craft gears they want, therefore when GGG says they gonna nerf harvest in a way which is not players expect, they start to attack GGG.

However we know it could be improved in a lot of ways, based on these main problems:

First, storage limit, this is easy to improve don't want to say too much. Secondly, trading function, now people are using unofficial function to trade this:DC or chatting channel. I recommand GGG could allow us to extract craft by using currency: for example +cold or -fire, players could use 1E or 1annu to extract craft and sell them by using stash tab. This could not only give us an offical way to trade harvest craft safe but also keep the value for currency(no one actually use currency this league especially annu). Also if player don't have currency to extract craft, they could still using the old method which we are using now, but this time players trade currency and seeds only, not trade with gears which won't be cheated as losing their gears.

Then, I think using these harvest craft could also using currency, this means that harvest only give player a method that could craft gears in a certain way, which will cost currency to get or use those strong and powerful crafts. And this could also keep the value of currency and make harvest stay more close to the game core. This sulotion not only limite harvest in some level but also keep the craft that player could still use those powerful crafts.

I really like S14, as a new player this league really tought me a lot. But I think harvest really have more better ways to nerf or improve. What players want is not just nerf the method, but nerf it on a way that could make this game looks more like an entirety.

Hope u guys could see this, love the game, hope u could deal with this thing better.

The most fun part of harvest was low level crafting. Really fun for ssf to be able to effectively craft decent items that feel powerful without investing tons of effort into them. What was wrong with having a godly low level items to get through early gameplay easily, and introduce people to crafting.

Huge mistake: You removed the actual fun part of harvest and destroyed the rest.

It's almost like you guys never played the game. Maybe stop looking at statistics and actually play the game a bit. It's not that bad, come play.

This is looney man...Devs need to go watch path of maths video on this and understand the implications for both the business and the game and decide if this is still what they really want, I'm not even opposed to nerfing harvest but holy shit just remove it from the game at this point. Why is it core if its so against your philosophy in the first place? Why not just make it more rare or change the implementation in maps.

After doing all this you couldn't figure out how to turn a seed into a tradable item? We have that with beastcrafting turning into a tradable orb, it's that simple.

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Virandis wrote:

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Jadran wrote:

So wait, several months ago, before Harvest even existed, PoE was a bad game?

In this regard? Yes.
There's a reason a lot of people have only ever played two or three weeks into a league. There's a reason a lot of people never engaged in any kind of crafting before harvest. There is a reason some of my friends never recommended anyone this game before ritual league.

PoE has a lot going for it, but gambling your items with currency for miniscule chances of getting something good is definitely not one of those.
And all of the other good things? Don't really matter if people can't progress to that point in the first place.

A lot of people were able to tackle their first Sirus this league and actually see some of the endgame. What's the point of that endgame if it is not achievable by most people in any form?

Dude. One thing I can share from experience. Unless you are one of the 0.1% players who grind the crap out of the game in a league start...it will always be a tad shitty for the first 7-14 days but the longer you engage the better everything gets.

Items as well as your currency stash. This is not minecraft or Diablo 3 where you become the Doomslayer within minutes. It requires some effort but makes it that much more worth it in the end. At least to me. If you want easy and quick...well. choice is yours.

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bauermayers wrote:

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Jadran wrote:

So wait, several months ago, before Harvest even existed, PoE was a bad game? Because this thread makes it sound like it will be a bad game now after Harvest is nerfed. I don't get this logic. I'd assume tons of people had fun with it before Harvest.

It's like: imagine you eat ice cream for the 1st time in your life. It's absolutely phenomenal. Now, several months later your parents come and say - no more ice cream for you son, it's actually not good for your teeth and overall health. So yeah, most kids would throw a tantrum here. But does it mean life berfore ice cream was terrible?

Exactly. TBH I don't understand why they implemented harvest in the core game in such a powerful state if the plan was to nerf it to the ground after one league, but the fact is people are dealing with the gambling nature of the games crafting system for a long time now. People who don't like it just don't use it or quit long ago.

This the thing. I'm fine with the nerfs, but those who are not could send a message by quitting the game, but we know that's not gonna happen. Players will bitch and whine, they'll say they'll quit, but those saying they'll quit are the ones queueing as soon as the next league starts.

That's why GGG does stuff like that. They know their players. They know only a handful will quit, and most will quit for different reasons.

Exactly... it's always amusing reading through comments after a majer news post lands. Everytime from the comments it seems like 99% of the playerbase will quit next league. And than you look at player numbers and... oh wait they have gone up. How surprising. It turns out people promising not to play next league because summoners are nerfed or whatever thing is getting changed in the game are either a neglectable % of the playerbase or just lie.

I feel like the problem is taken the complete wrong way around...

Gambling your exalts or chaos spamming isn't exciting or fun, it's something that the majority of players don't do, and almost nobody enjoys it. It's a frustrating and unrewarding way of gearing up, and it's obvious to everyone. There's just the tiniest fractionf of players that are actually doing this. Essences came about for this reason, same for fossils, and Harvest came to be because crafting was so bad in the first place.

If the problem of Harvest crafts is that you have to go to Discord and such to trade, why not just make, say, an orb to put your crafts in, like for beasts ? Would that be too hard to do ? Wouldn't be more annoying than any other trade.

And talking about annoyance, why is trading still done with a slow and tedious website in the first place ? So instead of fixing this, better just kill Harvest ?

Why do you always pamper to the 1% of POE gamers? You are basically locking 99% of your player base out of "effective" crafting by making it too expensive. Most people will not waste an exalted orb by slamming it and hoping for the best.