Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

This is looney man...Devs need to go watch path of maths video on this and understand the implications for both the business and the game and decide if this is still what they really want, I'm not even opposed to nerfing harvest but holy shit just remove it from the game at this point. Why is it core if its so against your philosophy in the first place? Why not just make it more rare or change the implementation in maps.

After doing all this you couldn't figure out how to turn a seed into a tradable item? We have that with beastcrafting turning into a tradable orb, it's that simple.

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Virandis wrote:

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Jadran wrote:

So wait, several months ago, before Harvest even existed, PoE was a bad game?

In this regard? Yes.
There's a reason a lot of people have only ever played two or three weeks into a league. There's a reason a lot of people never engaged in any kind of crafting before harvest. There is a reason some of my friends never recommended anyone this game before ritual league.

PoE has a lot going for it, but gambling your items with currency for miniscule chances of getting something good is definitely not one of those.
And all of the other good things? Don't really matter if people can't progress to that point in the first place.

A lot of people were able to tackle their first Sirus this league and actually see some of the endgame. What's the point of that endgame if it is not achievable by most people in any form?

Dude. One thing I can share from experience. Unless you are one of the 0.1% players who grind the crap out of the game in a league start...it will always be a tad shitty for the first 7-14 days but the longer you engage the better everything gets.

Items as well as your currency stash. This is not minecraft or Diablo 3 where you become the Doomslayer within minutes. It requires some effort but makes it that much more worth it in the end. At least to me. If you want easy and quick...well. choice is yours.

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bauermayers wrote:

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Jadran wrote:

So wait, several months ago, before Harvest even existed, PoE was a bad game? Because this thread makes it sound like it will be a bad game now after Harvest is nerfed. I don't get this logic. I'd assume tons of people had fun with it before Harvest.

It's like: imagine you eat ice cream for the 1st time in your life. It's absolutely phenomenal. Now, several months later your parents come and say - no more ice cream for you son, it's actually not good for your teeth and overall health. So yeah, most kids would throw a tantrum here. But does it mean life berfore ice cream was terrible?

Exactly. TBH I don't understand why they implemented harvest in the core game in such a powerful state if the plan was to nerf it to the ground after one league, but the fact is people are dealing with the gambling nature of the games crafting system for a long time now. People who don't like it just don't use it or quit long ago.

This the thing. I'm fine with the nerfs, but those who are not could send a message by quitting the game, but we know that's not gonna happen. Players will bitch and whine, they'll say they'll quit, but those saying they'll quit are the ones queueing as soon as the next league starts.

That's why GGG does stuff like that. They know their players. They know only a handful will quit, and most will quit for different reasons.

Exactly... it's always amusing reading through comments after a majer news post lands. Everytime from the comments it seems like 99% of the playerbase will quit next league. And than you look at player numbers and... oh wait they have gone up. How surprising. It turns out people promising not to play next league because summoners are nerfed or whatever thing is getting changed in the game are either a neglectable % of the playerbase or just lie.

I feel like the problem is taken the complete wrong way around...

Gambling your exalts or chaos spamming isn't exciting or fun, it's something that the majority of players don't do, and almost nobody enjoys it. It's a frustrating and unrewarding way of gearing up, and it's obvious to everyone. There's just the tiniest fractionf of players that are actually doing this. Essences came about for this reason, same for fossils, and Harvest came to be because crafting was so bad in the first place.

If the problem of Harvest crafts is that you have to go to Discord and such to trade, why not just make, say, an orb to put your crafts in, like for beasts ? Would that be too hard to do ? Wouldn't be more annoying than any other trade.

And talking about annoyance, why is trading still done with a slow and tedious website in the first place ? So instead of fixing this, better just kill Harvest ?

Why do you always pamper to the 1% of POE gamers? You are basically locking 99% of your player base out of "effective" crafting by making it too expensive. Most people will not waste an exalted orb by slamming it and hoping for the best.

Chris, you see, I can't be the top 1% players or those who make this a job to guide new players, I've play POE when it's first introduced on the very 1st months and my play time not even reach 24 hours when I quit.

And after all those years, I came back just to have a look and turn out I invested 263+ hours in softcore, THIS league due to more accessible to the fun that most CASUAL players (>80% of player base) don't, while I still trying to learn whatever is new from what I knew previously (90% of the content is new), start to sort out the complexity of this game just to access the fun part, then you asking me to double my play time? Or triple it? Or make it no-life into POE? I am pretty sure I will not touch it again after this league. Even though my Atlas completion stopped at tier 5 maps and I'm capable to clear tier 16 maps with no problems at all, with occasionally OS from whatever it is, I'm still very much enjoy it, (my build is fairly budget build that not even more than 5 ex, thanks to the accessible of harvest crafting, everything in POE make it so possible for a casual players like me.

When harvest crafting is nerf-ed, I'm pretty sure those fairly cheap gears will be double, triple or more of current currencies which it will make the top 1% players have all those fun instead of most of your player base, well, I wish you good luck on that.

Btw, hope next league change will not make me regret on what I do to support your team as most of those who DID support your team.

I'm sure there are plenty of changes waiting to be improve, like:-

1. My personal option setting - heck, after all those years since the beginning on POE development, I'm still have to set my personal setting all over AGAIN when I move to new PC or other than my device? What kind of stone age game still have such unsync setting on personal account?

2. FPS, Glitches, etc - I'm sure plenty of players submit such reports, well, no need to repeat those again.

3. Trading - it's good to have own trading site while not depending on 3rd party, why don't make it better? Make it some kind of in game interface instead of browsers (you know, most of the time browser suck, especially when you already finish the gatcha and it send you endless loop of gatcha verification). We priced items in the Premium stash and we can view it from in game interface, not some lousy browser or endless loop of 3rd party verification, isn't that nice?

4. Scams - not avoidable for a multi-player base ARPG game, since POE did a great improvement on trading window (you have to point and view the item before you can accept it), why don't make harvest crafting trade-able in some kind of orbs like bestiaries?

5. Awakened trade macro.exe - I'm sure this can be implement if POE have in game trading interface, it help Mac OS a lot if this implemented in game, especially new player base, like me.

6. Item Filter - I'm pretty sure those junks on MF hunting is crazy, it even make me dc'ed when I press Alt accidentally, funny, is it?

7. Mac OS - it is very unstable (fps spike, spikes, glitches, etc) to play on Mac OS even on a Mac Pro 2020 that I used to do 3D modeling, and I do understand it just implement on Dec last year, since the game was there a decade ago, not sure why.

Well, that's sum of my opinions, wish POE the best luck since Blizzie is very good at disappointing players, let's hope POE can do a lot better than them.

Stop NERFING the best part parts of playing this game due to the less than 1% (streamers) that find ways to abuse it and take advantage of it. You constantly change (NERF) the core principles of the game to take away advantages created by the very few and end up hindering and making the game NOT fun for other 99% of us!

These changes make players to play more and achieve less.

I didnt like the news... I play POE since 3.6 and didnt had such fun like in Harvest League and this new Ritual league, thats because i had the oportunity to tryout some powerful builds that i never had the opportunity before (due to lack of crafting possibilities and the monstruous price of high-crafting before harvest).

In harvest and ritual i succesfully made builds i always dreamed about. I also bought lots of new skins and microtransations, because i was trying new stuff and the felling of trying new visuals for the op mechanics i could play was awesome. Why i should buy more supporter packs if i cant build more than 1 nice character to play with?!

Please dont break the crafting to praise the RNG god again please. Let the people play, invest in some even more powerful late game and crafting systems instead of crushing this one.

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Fenoch wrote:

Items as well as your currency stash. This is not minecraft or Diablo 3 where you become the Doomslayer within minutes. It requires some effort but makes it that much more worth it in the end. At least to me. If you want easy and quick...well. choice is yours.

And that's related to my points how? People quit the league within weeks, not days or hours. "Crafting" is nothing but gambling with a name that hides that aspect.

I've not even used harvest crafting until after I killed Sirus, due to this being my first actual league and harvest being a bit too much until I had a somewhat better understanding of things.

Now shouldn't this be a proof, that harvest is not needed? No, because a lot of the items I was able to buy, by farming currency, would not have been affordable without harvest.


Nobody is saying, there should be no effort involved.
Nobody is saying, there should be no time required.

But both should pay off in a reasonable degree.