⛵☁️[3.25] The Arachnophobia Allstars| Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 150M+

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Chromino wrote:

Hi monik390,

yes, the 100% chaos-daamge-transformation is very interesting with void gaze and awakened void manipulation. Great set-up!

But you loose a lot energy-shield (1400), and get often oneshotted (like in your youtube-video) with that low tankyness. You balanced gloves, boots, passives in templar starting-area and for 2 curses into damage, that is much and you sacrifyce other stuff in that place. Stats like overcapped resistances against quite common debuffs or curses are missing and attribute-requirements are harder to reach in your pob. The 5.1k es of your build is good when you are full-levelled or on level-ups (like I also recommend the hatred-edition), but the hatred pob reaches instead 6.5 k es, needed and recommended 1.4 k es urgent more, and the huge advantages of 100% damagereductions of fullblock are on top included vs the glancing blows 35% dr of your edited pob.

Most problematic without cast-speed of rare gloves you not reach continuous 60 virulences singletarget and loose millions of damage against bosses (and need melee-range or swap gems too).

The advantages of your very good pob is the quite big high advantage of fitting in an added big aura instead hatred and fitting in iron reflexes or ghost dance as keystone.

But the hatred edtition is in this comparing much more tanky (in the moment) in this set-up. Feeding frenzy is changed in into the spiders-supports, not linked with a golem.

I will love to path an 100% chaos-conversion edition with the balances from defences into damage of the triad-grips, but in combination with other auras, flasks and in fullblock for better tankyness.
It's great to try to switch in the triad-grips for attractive more damage, but I would not recommend to the used auras, flasks and much too low energy-shield.

Very nice set-up with top damage! But the tankyness is balanced out much more in your pob.

Sup.

About my build tankiness in videos. Don't misjudge it simply bc you saw me dying on simulacrum wave 30. Try it yourself. I was able to clear it deathless, btw.

About overcapping stuff. Resistances? 100% curse reduction. Which are other common debuffs you are talking about? I don't give a heck about block/armor/evasion reductions, I never died to them.

Back to business.

The point of my comparison was, that with full chaos conversion it is a lot easier to get more damage without sacrificing tankiness or auras. This is an undeniable fact, bc you still have to sacrifice grace for hatred and make it linked with generosity and optional dread banner, and with full chaos - you don't have to.

2d, I played the pob just to show the difference between the tankiness in an all-out damage build. 22m dps hatred is a glasscannon, while 22m dps full chaos is not.

I want to say, that if you can get 6.5-7k ES and 17.6m DPS with the hatred, full chaos can get the same numbers too, and it will be tankier bc it still can run better auras.

Btw, your full damage 17.6m dps 6.5k ES hatred build, as it is in PoB, has insufficient mana reserved. It will work only w/o dread banner, which drops it's dps to 16.6m dps. And linking feeding frenzy to spiders drops dps even further to 14.6m.

With the full chaos, you can get the same numbers of damage, same ES, same tankiness with max block w/o glancing blows, but still running with the Grace.

Finally, about virulence. I guess, you didn't check my post about it. Any 4-link gloves can run max virulence (be it 55 or 65) stable with storm burst - cwc - chance to poison - ball lightning for a single target. And on maps just normal ball lightning-chance to poison-GMP-faster casting is enough. Switching gmp to spell echo for bosses.

I'm not missing anything here, and I'm not berating your build. You were the one who mentioned Eber's Unification, and I just elaborated it with the full chaos conversion, clearly pointing to its advantages.

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To sum up, hatred is less tanky simply bc of the fact that it is used instead of grace.

Full chaos can reach similar numbers in everything like ES or damage, and it is still can run grace.

That is my point.

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Edit: Take your PoB. Any of it (full block default for example, page 1). Put 4w Triad Grip. Don't change anything else. See the difference in damage.

I did with the front page default build (full block):

1. Rare gloves: 9.1m dps.
Triad Grip: 10.6m dps.

Cost: 600 ES.
Got: 1.5m dps and 1.2k armor.

2. Added Hatred + generosity: 10.5m dps.

Cost: 1 socket and 56k Armor.
Got: 1.4m dps.

Which one will you choose?

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P.s. I'm wrong on 1 thing - with full chaos conversion, you will get a bit less ES in any "same gear" scenario unless rare gloves have 0 ES on them.

I can reach default 7.6k ES by switching some gear, but, although it proves my words about reaching the same ES, it' doesn't change the fact that the triad grip is lacking it, and default build with good ES gloves easily pass 8k ES with my changes.

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monik390 wrote:

Sup.

1st of all, the point of my comparison was, that with full chaos conversion it is a lot easier to get more damage without sacrificing tankiness or auras. This is an undeniable fact, bc you still have to sacrifice grace for hatred and make it linked with generosity and optional dread banner, and with full chaos - you don't have to.

2d, I played the pob just to show the difference between the tankiness in an all-out damage build. 22m dps hatred is a glasscannon, while 22m dps full chaos is not.

I want to say, that if you can get 6.5-7k ES and 17.6m DPS with the hatred, full chaos can get the same numbers too, and it will be tankier bc it still can run more auras.

Btw, your full damage 17.6m dps 6.5k ES hatred build, as it is in PoB, has insufficient mana reserved. It will work only w/o dread banner, which drops it's dps to 16.6m dps. And linking feeding frenzy to spiders drops dps even further to 14.6m.

With the full chaos, you can get the same numbers of damage, same ES, same tankiness with max block w/o glancing blows, but still running with the Grace.

Finally, about virulence. I guess, you didn't check my post about it. Any 4-link gloves can run max virulence (be it 55 or 65) stable with storm burst - cwc - chance to poison - ball lightning for a single target. And on maps just normal ball lightning-chance to poison-GMP-faster casting is enough. Switching gmp to spell echo for bosses.

I'm not missing anything here, and I'm not berating your build. You were the one who mentioned Eber's Unification, and I just elaborated it with the full chaos conversion, clearly pointing to its advantages.

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To sum up, hatred is less tanky simply bc of the fact that it is used instead of grace.

Full chaos can reach similar numbers in everything like ES or damage, and it is still can run grace.

That is my point.

yeeaah, I know and you do extreme high valuable pob's, they are totally great for damage and a lot other stuff! Very fine set-ups and I love it to discuss about and it's passion to look at the ups and downs!

I would personally not go with stormburst, because you can move much better with ball-lightnings and stormbrands and I would not go with purity of element because the benefits are possible on other slots better in my opinion. I would not go in high content with glancing blows, only when all defensive layers are top builded up.

I tried out stormburst a long time ago and now again after your postings. I believe too, that when you like it, it's absolute great for your playstyle! But I personally mislike to swap gems in a fight or the slow speed of the channeling. Cyclone is a tough question - you can move better, but you need melee range, I don't like the whirling too.

I would love to get a chaos conversion-edition, it's with all the chaos gear amazing and attractive.

Here is an example: https://pastebin.com/r1DTLPaq

edited: optimized with time of need instead bastion of hope, more blocks, only 6.7 k es
https://pastebin.com/WApFTKcj

(Take the item- and tree-tabs "100% full chaos edition")

Pathed with grace, iron reflexes, 122k armour (we need ignite-immunity on basalt-flask added), "only" 17.5M damage, buffed 68% / 73% fullblock, increased duration of molten shell, vaal discipline etc., 6.7 k es, some overcapped resistances of veteran defender, 90k-205 k ehp (with ghost dance the numbers are higher: 144k-320k, but without high es on block it would be probably a bit squishier nonetheless in my expreriences), add frostshield on top almost alltime up.

It don't go glascannonstyle, has fullblock-benefits, only the energyshield is low because of the triadgrip gloves instead rare ones and missing arcane focus. I fear it will get full 60 virulences probably only in maps, singletarget with spellecho it will need longer to build up 60 virulences.

With glancing blows (changed large block-cluster to damage cluster and gravepact instead block-notes and bastion of hope out for nice time of need), it would offer 20 M damage and 7 k es as well as wicked ward, switch in other rare boots for more resistances:

https://pastebin.com/c8XdgVkG

But with glancing blows the ehp kites deep down in the cellar again: 23-95k is too much glascannonstyle in my opinion and I would recommend it only for some special content. I would advice to fullblock 90-230 k ehp, that is tankyness.

Hehe, very interesting! And nice to discuss and optimize with you! Arachnophilia!

Yep, that's it. You've made it great, that's what I was talking about =)

I checked pob fullblock - maan, seems very good, but bastion of hope is bugging me.

I probably would like to run this: https://pastebin.com/P9gCXxRX

Downed to 6.8k ES, 17.2m dps, but got 68/68 blocks and time of need. Curse immunity is a must-have for me.

Edit: PoB stuff so immersing. There are plenty of ways to play around it xD

About virulence - I don't like both storm burst and gem-swapping too, but I just have to do it bc benefits are too great xD

eh

is https://pastebin.com/PckSa20v still good for hatered way or has it change?

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monik390 wrote:

Yep, that's it. You've made it great, that's what I was talking about =)

I checked pob fullblock - maan, seems very good, but bastion of hope is bugging me.

I probably would like to run this: https://pastebin.com/P9gCXxRX

Downed to 6.8k ES, 17.2m dps, but got 68/68 blocks and time of need. Curse immunity is a must-have for me.

Edit: PoB stuff so immersing. There are plenty of ways to play around it xD

About virulence - I don't like both storm burst and gem-swapping too, but I just have to do it bc benefits are too great xD

i dont know how you guys keep track of all these changes. i can barely keep track of the POB im using, and just barely lol.

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Soulstrike628 wrote:

i dont know how you guys keep track of all these changes. i can barely keep track of the POB im using, and just barely lol

xD It's just an experience with building.

If you've ever tried to build smth on your own and succeded all content with it, you'll get this kind of skill too.

Making a build is all about fulfilling your needs. Know your stuff and how to use it, so you'll know how to improve it.

That is why there is so much bickering about each % of crap between builders. Our needs are different.

DarkVolteer, it's ok.

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DarkVolteer wrote:

is https://pastebin.com/PckSa20v still good for hatered way or has it change?

Thanks a lot to Monik390 to bring in more chaos, hehe, with triad grips!

We added in the pob a new tree-tab and item-tab "100% chaosconversion 17M"

It reaches 17.5 M damage, 6.7 k es, and 88-220k ehp, with buffed fullblocks 68% attack/ 73% spellblock, 122k armour, 2.4k es/ block.

Add manually the feeding frenzy instead unbound ailments in the dagger-supports, and awakened void manipulation for the HoA (with lvl 31 b.i.s. support) and feeding frenzy buff in configuration.

This very nice chaos-edition has a lot advantages of iron reflexes with high armour and high es on block.

It balance some defences, es and overcapped resistances and, that I still need to try out for problems, singletarget-castspeed of rare gloves into the chaos-mastery, a minion-damage-mastery with increased effects of offerings, and high damage of white socketed triad grips.


To rebalance this missing castspeed of rare gloves outside maps (only in single-boss-arenas) with integrated faster casting/ slower projectiles it's possible to change the set-up in gloves to:

anomalous ball-lightnings- anomalous spellecho- faster casting-chance to poison

This way of supports return in enough cast speed, but loose greater multiple projectiles supports and stormbrands.


The 100% chaos conversion uses the interactions of eber's unification, spirit offering, withers, sniper's mark, awakened void manipulation, and tipping point HoA level 31.

Compared to the "hatred"-edition with elemental equilirium as keystone on the skin of the lords it has mainly a lot more armour with grace and iron reflexes or high evasion or some regenerations with "ghost dance" and it is easier to obtain enough sockets in this chaos-setup.

https://pastebin.com/PckSa20v

Thank you again monik390 for great triad grips! I loved them as necro too, and here it is a impactful pob again! Great!

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monik390 wrote:

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Soulstrike628 wrote:

i dont know how you guys keep track of all these changes. i can barely keep track of the POB im using, and just barely lol

xD It's just an experience with building.

If you've ever tried to build smth on your own and succeded all content with it, you'll get this kind of skill too.

Making a build is all about fulfilling your needs. Know your stuff and how to use it, so you'll know how to improve it.

That is why there is so much bickering about each % of crap between builders. Our needs are different.

DarkVolteer, it's ok.

oh i know, and the amount of work and thought you guys put into it is amazing. i'm still having those random deaths that chunk off 10% exp at a time, so its suuuuuuper frustrating. end up turning the game off for a breather because i get so close to level, and than having a death, and sets me back

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Soulstrike628 wrote:

oh i know, and the amount of work and thought you guys put into it is amazing. i'm still having those random deaths that chunk off 10% exp at a time, so its suuuuuuper frustrating. end up turning the game off for a breather because i get so close to level, and than having a death, and sets me back

Hi soulsttrike628,


the "Fullblock"-edition is by far the most tanky edition. Use this while you are not full-levelled, the 9M damage are more than enough for all content.

In your set-up fullblock would add a lot ehp. Take the block-mastery instead arcane will and righteous army and switch out glancing blows.

Do you have ingame only 23 unreserved mana like pob shows? That is not enough to trigger divergent frostshield probably. Or does it triggers often enough?

Take also a look into the updated spoiler "flasks": in scourges are too many ignites, take in ignite-immunity on one flask.

For almost all content 5M damage are enough. You need more damage only for endgame encounters like UE, the feared or simulacrum waves 25-30. Level some more with increased defences.