So the 10% increased effect of non-damaging ailments means 10% more chill
and with cold conduction it means 10% more shock
so 10% more dmg taken?
Well, it's an increase in the effect. So in the case of chill let's say the hit normally would have resulted in a 20% chill. Adding 10% increased effect of non-damaging ailments would have instead resulted in a ~22% chill.
The shock that is applied via Cold Conduction is always a 15% magnitude shock regardless of how strong of a chill was applied to the target. So any increased effect of non-damaging ailments is applied against this 15% value. In context of the medium cluster jewel, you should be getting at least 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments (20% from Astonishing Affliction and 10% from the minor node leading to it), meaning your shock should be at least ~19.5% increased damage taken on the target.
So the 10% increased effect of non-damaging ailments means 10% more chill
and with cold conduction it means 10% more shock
so 10% more dmg taken?
Well, it's an increase in the effect. So in the case of chill let's say the hit normally would have resulted in a 20% chill. Adding 10% increased effect of non-damaging ailments would have instead resulted in a ~22% chill.
The shock that is applied via Cold Conduction is always a 15% magnitude shock regardless of how strong of a chill was applied to the target. So any increased effect of non-damaging ailments is applied against this 15% value. In context of the medium cluster jewel, you should be getting at least 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments (20% from Astonishing Affliction and 10% from the minor node leading to it), meaning your shock should be at least ~19.5% increased damage taken on the target.
well with the shield I decided I wand to go full damage
work in progress ( gives me 2k more dmg in hideout then current shield)
- need to add crit
- this will fill all suffixes
- argument with lucky cold and hope for cold damage and not cold as chaos
then remove the cold res and ideally add block. this will leave me with empty suffix
This league is potentially interesting for a while because perfect items can change the best ways to play a build. Do you think this can be better than Atziri's reflection? That's a pretty high bar to overcome.
The shock that is applied via Cold Conduction is always a 15% magnitude shock regardless of how strong of a chill was applied to the target. So any increased effect of non-damaging ailments is applied against this 15% value.
That's absolutely bonkers. So with just 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments, that's damage equal to 0.164% of enemy ailment threshold (normally their max Life, but less in the case of big bads like Shaper) to trigger a 19% shock. To get a shock of the same strength without Cold Conduction with the same 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments, you'd need 30 times as much lightning damage. That does come with the downside of cold damage unable to break a 19% cap on effect vs trash mobs, but that's more than worth it for such a massive shock effect against rare and unique enemies with so little effort.
Additional investment in Increased Effect of Non-damaging Ailments makes for BOTH bigger Shocks AND an even lower damage threshold to achieve them. This is essentially double-dipping. At 200% increased effect, damage of just 0.02% — that's 1/5000 — triggers a 45% Shock, which would normally require 243 times as much lightning damage even with the same 200% increased effect to achieve.
In short, Cold Conduction working as you describe means chill-based builds are orders of magnitude better at shocking than lightning-based builds.
I'm not saying you're wrong about what Cold Conduction does, but if you're right it should be nerfed without question and as quickly as possible. Something like "Your Damage that Chills always Shocks, with modifiers to Chill Effect also applying to Shock Effect / Your Damage that Shocks always Chills, with modifiers to Shock Effect also applying to Chill Effect" would be fine; you'd need the language regarding modifiers to ensure no Chills create Shocks below the 5% "discard" threshold and vice versa.
As such, I kinda hope you're wrong. That's not about evidence, it's about preference.
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Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jul 6, 2020, 6:55:36 AM
The shock that is applied via Cold Conduction is always a 15% magnitude shock regardless of how strong of a chill was applied to the target. So any increased effect of non-damaging ailments is applied against this 15% value.
That's absolutely bonkers. So with just 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments, that's damage equal to 0.164% of enemy ailment threshold (normally their max Life, but less in the case of big bads like Shaper) to trigger a 19% shock. To get a shock of the same strength without Cold Conduction with the same 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments, you'd need 30 times as much lightning damage. That does come with the downside of cold damage unable to break a 19% cap on effect vs trash mobs, but that's more than worth it for such a massive shock effect against rare and unique enemies with so little effort.
Additional investment in Increased Effect of Non-damaging Ailments makes for BOTH bigger Shocks AND an even lower damage threshold to achieve them. This is essentially double-dipping. At 200% increased effect, damage of just 0.02% triggers a 45% Shock, which would normally require 243 times as much lightning damage even with the same 200% increased effect.
I'm not saying you're wrong about what Cold Conduction does, but if you're right it should be nerfed without question and as quickly as possible. Something like "Your Damage that Chills always Shocks, with modifiers to Chill Effect also applying to Shock Effect / Your Damage that Shocks always Chills, with modifiers to Shock Effect also applying to Chill Effect" would be fine; you'd need the language regarding modifiers to ensure no Chills create Shocks below the 5% "discard" threshold and vice versa.
As such, I kinda hope you're wrong. That's not about evidence, it's about preference.
Seems to be how it works for these conditional Shock effects, like Skitterbots' aura or Vaal Lightning Trap. They always apply a 15% Shock effect (though in the case of Skitterbots they are minions, so they instead put increased effect of Shock on the gem itself for minions specifically).
They have different language for the kind of effect you're talking about, like on the Three Dragons helmet, which just says "Your Cold Damage can Shock", which would then calculate against the threshold like usual.
The shock that is applied via Cold Conduction is always a 15% magnitude shock regardless of how strong of a chill was applied to the target. So any increased effect of non-damaging ailments is applied against this 15% value.
That's absolutely bonkers. So with just 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments, that's damage equal to 0.164% of enemy ailment threshold (normally their max Life, but less in the case of big bads like Shaper) to trigger a 19% shock. To get a shock of the same strength without Cold Conduction with the same 30% increased effect of non-damaging ailments, you'd need 30 times as much lightning damage. That does come with the downside of cold damage unable to break a 19% cap on effect vs trash mobs, but that's more than worth it for such a massive shock effect against rare and unique enemies with so little effort.
Additional investment in Increased Effect of Non-damaging Ailments makes for BOTH bigger Shocks AND an even lower damage threshold to achieve them. This is essentially double-dipping. At 200% increased effect, damage of just 0.02% — that's 1/5000 — triggers a 45% Shock, which would normally require 243 times as much lightning damage even with the same 200% increased effect to achieve.
In short, Cold Conduction working as you describe means chill-based builds are orders of magnitude better at shocking than lightning-based builds.
I'm not saying you're wrong about what Cold Conduction does, but if you're right it should be nerfed without question and as quickly as possible. Something like "Your Damage that Chills always Shocks, with modifiers to Chill Effect also applying to Shock Effect / Your Damage that Shocks always Chills, with modifiers to Shock Effect also applying to Chill Effect" would be fine; you'd need the language regarding modifiers to ensure no Chills create Shocks below the 5% "discard" threshold and vice versa.
As such, I kinda hope you're wrong. That's not about evidence, it's about preference.
I'm sorry I understand the 15% shock value and all % gains being increased to this.
What is this ailment threshhold value of 0.164% come from?
I thought the shock would just apply to any enemy our freezing pulse hits since it always applies chilled?
What makes this so powerful? enemies taking 19-20% more increased damage?
Last edited by GGTeMpLaR#0084 on Jul 6, 2020, 10:37:19 AM
