[3.5] The Blinding Blizzard - Whispering Ice CI Elequisitor - Viable For Everything

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Solax wrote:

The discussions about dropping the Fire conversion and sticking to pure Cold start on page 188. Start from there if you want to read up on everyone's thoughts so far.

This post needs to go to the first/second post of the thread. thx for the info.

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Xavori wrote:

Do note that Winter Orb seems to require GMP to function at all, and WI gains no benefit from extra projectiles. That cuts an extra link off Icestorm.

Erm... what?
For starters, there NEVER would be a case, when we sacrifice gem slot for GMP, even if winter orb need it. In that case, most probably just dunk entire winter orb idea.

Secondly... what? What even give you idea that winter orb will require GMP to function? Was there official statement about this or what?
Because from what it looks like, and what written on gem itself isn't suggesting that it need any such support.
What you said right now is almost equal to seeing how "barrage skill shooting multiple projectiles, it's probably need GMP support". That's wrong assumptions.
Moreover winter orb projectiles have their own aoe. I don't know how GMP will affect that barrage, but most probably only make skill weaker.

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Med1umentor wrote:

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Xavori wrote:

Do note that Winter Orb seems to require GMP to function at all, and WI gains no benefit from extra projectiles. That cuts an extra link off Icestorm.

Erm... what?
For starters, there NEVER would be a case, when we sacrifice gem slot for GMP, even if winter orb need it. In that case, most probably just dunk entire winter orb idea.

Secondly... what? What even give you idea that winter orb will require GMP to function? Was there official statement about this or what?
Because from what it looks like, and what written on gem itself isn't suggesting that it need any such support.
What you said right now is almost equal to seeing how "barrage skill shooting multiple projectiles, it's probably need GMP support". That's wrong assumptions.
Moreover winter orb projectiles have their own aoe. I don't know how GMP will affect that barrage, but most probably only make skill weaker.

Reddit discussion on WO is that it has low damage but it can be scaled by increasing number of projectiles and overlapping damage from multiple hits. Thus "GMP required." I don't think they are thinking of it as a channeling skill to trigger icestorm. Its not like SR was used for damage on its own, so I assume that WO not being a great stand-alone clear skill without GMP wont be an issue here. But I am not very knowledgeable about mechanics so maybe don't listen to me :)

I mean, it fires one projectile by default. Watch the video they put up of Winter Orb; he has GMP linked, and each time the orb fires it's firing 5 projectiles, 1 base +4 from GMP.

The base damage of the skill is utterly atrocious without GMP; at 10 charges, a 20/20 WO is 906 DPS with no links. With GMP, it's 3352 DPS, assuming every single projectile hits a target. That's nearly 270% more dps from one skill gem. I'd say it's required.

Edit: the reason to even consider Winter Orb over ray at all is that Ray CWC Icestorm has horrendous map clear speed. The idea, at least for me, was to improve the clear speed by using a skill that does enough damage that you don't have to stop and channel Icestorm every single time to kill trash. If Winter Orb needs GMP to clear (and it does), then you're either using GMP for it or scrapping the entire idea.

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Xavori wrote:

The base damage of the skill is utterly atrocious without GMP; at 10 charges, a 20/20 WO is 906 DPS with no links. With GMP, it's 3352 DPS, assuming every single projectile hits a target. That's nearly 270% more dps from one skill gem. I'd say it's required.

Edit: the reason to even consider Winter Orb over ray at all is that Ray CWC Icestorm has horrendous map clear speed.

Not quite. Having better clear by automatically targeting stragglers is one important reason to go WO, but not alone. It's generally going cold for better defense, also occultist for better defense. Additionally maybe bit better AOE due to HoI, etc.
So far, fire was "best" due to the overall damage compared to alternatives and synergy from scorching ray with that fire damage. Due to several changes in the game, occultist and pure cold might now be viable as well. Maybe even overall better for some.
Similar to when the build went full life berserker in 3.0 due to game changes, and then back CI and this time ascendant due to more game changes

While WO doesn't seem to have great damage without GMP it might not be relevant for our case. E.g. WO might be powerful enough to finish off the last ~25% HP of some stragglers, while people who want to replace their 6L scorching ray build obviously need way more damage from this skill than us.

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Xavori wrote:

I mean, it fires one projectile by default. Watch the video they put up of Winter Orb; he has GMP linked, and each time the orb fires it's firing 5 projectiles, 1 base +4 from GMP.

The base damage of the skill is utterly atrocious without GMP; at 10 charges, a 20/20 WO is 906 DPS with no links. With GMP, it's 3352 DPS, assuming every single projectile hits a target. That's nearly 270% more dps from one skill gem. I'd say it's required.

Edit: the reason to even consider Winter Orb over ray at all is that Ray CWC Icestorm has horrendous map clear speed. The idea, at least for me, was to improve the clear speed by using a skill that does enough damage that you don't have to stop and channel Icestorm every single time to kill trash. If Winter Orb needs GMP to clear (and it does), then you're either using GMP for it or scrapping the entire idea.

Hmm. Maybe, but i have some doubts. For example:
Why do you think it fires 1 projectile by default? It never states so neither in video, neither in presented gem. Video never show us it linked with GMP either.
Even gem itself saying "fire projectiles every 0.8 seconds".
You can call me delusional, but now i believe that what was showed in video was setup without GMP. Because even from "game mechanic point of view", if you link skill with 1 projectile with GMP, then projectiles would be fired in a fan shape in clean order.
Well, considering that "bombardment" isn't really a thing from our skills, we can compare it with bombardment that fire golem do with GMP. And even though it's not as clean as other skills, it's still fan shape.

I can't say for sure before we actually get to play with it, that can be very well new mechanic together with new skill.
I apologise beforehand, if it will turned out that i'm wrong. But for now i still believe that they showed us version without GMP.

P.S. Moreover, that video have inconsitencies too. I just checked frame by frame the moment of firing projectiles at 1-2 stack of winter orb. Interval between first and second bursts were 20 frames, when 1 second is 60 frames. There is no way to have such rate of fire on 2 stacks.

The skill gem literally says "fires projectiles every 0.8 seconds". So plural = more than 1 without links.

the spell on the preview video is supported by

P(green) Greater multiple projectile
V(green) Cold penetration
s(blue) Increased critical strike
c(blue) Increased critical damage
f(blue) Faster casting

Look at the skill in his skill bar, you can see what is linked to it. Green uppercase P = Greater Multiple Projectiles. See here: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Support_Skill_Gems

His links are Orb + GMP + Cold Pen + FC + ICD + ICS.

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Inialla wrote:

the spell on the preview video is supported by

P(green) Greater multiple projectile
V(green) Cold penetration
s(blue) Increased critical strike
c(blue) Increased critical damage
f(blue) Faster casting

Oh damn, yeah, always forget about those indicators.