[3.x - Discontinued for now] Burning Spectres - Torch the Atlas - HC Shaper, Elder, Uber Atziri
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Wukufyze wrote:
Whether IIR directly influences shaped/elder I don't know. But it doesn't matter. More IIR means more rares/magic over time = higher rate of them being shaped/elder over time. And there is zero reason to assume otherwise because that's how the game has always worked since beta.
If you're specifically targeting maps for shaped/elder items, then yea sure, go nuts on IIR.
Why do you take it for granted that elder/shaped is determined after rarity?
To make this clearer, the drop process should go some way like this:
1. Does an item drop?
2. If yes, what item class?
3. what item basetype?
4.a is it elder/shaped?
4.b what rarity does it have?
5.a what rarity does it have (if elder => auto-rare)
5.b is it elder/rare (only possible if 4.b rolled at least rare)
6. whatever
I hope, I've made that point clear now. If it's somehow obvious that either version a or b is impossible, please enlighten me. Until then I consider both possible.
Whether IIR directly influences shaped/elder I don't know. But it doesn't matter. More IIR means more rares/magic over time = higher rate of them being shaped/elder over time. And there is zero reason to assume otherwise because that's how the game has always worked since beta.
If you're specifically targeting maps for shaped/elder items, then yea sure, go nuts on IIR.
Why do you take it for granted that elder/shaped is determined after rarity?
To make this clearer, the drop process should go some way like this:
1. Does an item drop?
2. If yes, what item class?
3. what item basetype?
4.a is it elder/shaped?
4.b what rarity does it have?
5.a what rarity does it have (if elder => auto-rare)
5.b is it elder/rare (only possible if 4.b rolled at least rare)
6. whatever
I hope, I've made that point clear now. If it's somehow obvious that either version a or b is impossible, please enlighten me. Until then I consider both possible.
Has a normal shaped/elder item ever dropped for you? Can they even be dropped in their normal item base? I haven't ever seen it. If so, you must assume that they aren't calculated before rarity because it goes against the entire premise of IIR.
But either way, I spent way too much time talking about something in a thread that isn't meant for it at all.
Last edited by Wukufyze#1642 on Jan 9, 2018, 1:48:07 PM
Shaper done with 4 solar guards + 3 flame golems(1 golem just died at the end)! 1 death because stupid mistake, no problems at all.
A guardian map and Ruby flask from your first Shaper? Quit while you are ahead, haha. He usually only drops rare for me. I lost a lot of currency farming him last league :p
Has a normal shaped/elder item ever dropped for you? Can they even be dropped in their normal item base? I haven't ever seen it. If so, you must assume that they aren't calculated before rarity because it goes against the entire premise of IIR
Irrelevant because of Stygian Vise, but I'm losing my motivation, too. Assume what you want but please refrain from disguising assumptions as facts.
We know for a fact that IIR upgrades items. Why would shaper/elder items not be part of that same loot table?
what would make you think that GGG would put a whole new system in place to accommodate the new items. Seems like a whole lot of work huh? Much easier to nerf the items that are problematic. Oh wait is bisco nerfed?
I don't have the evidence to prove it. But my personal results are showing it works. But then again you definitely have absolutely nothing going for your argument. Have not tried it and doubt.
Prove GGG created a whole new drop system for shaper/elder. You cannot...
Come back when you have at least something... Doubt does not count.
NS
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Solmyr77 wrote:
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Nightstone13 wrote:
I can only go off what others are reporting for drops and what I was getting pre stacking rarity. I get more items now. If im seeing more thats good enough for me.
Rarity is so cheap and easy to get - Try it. Its that simple. I know... Trying something is harder. Its much easier to post doubt...
If stacking high rarity does not get you higher elder/shaper drops feel free to come back and call me a dumbass. Till then its all speculation both on your part and mine.
NS
I grant you that, but my play time/motivation are limited. And to be fair, how many hours of gameplay would be required to provide meaningful empirical results? ;)
I was just curious whether your claims were facts. I couldn't verify them so I asked for your source. Now that I know it, we can agree that IIR may or may not affect the amount of elder/shaped drops. And people following this topic can make better informed decisions. That's my main motivation for posts like this.
Guys I don't want to be condescending and I can't make it any clearer. If you don't get it, fine. There's a valid chance that your assumption is right. Could be wrong, too.
You try to make me look stupid but nothing either of you wrote is conclusive.
Oh and you could solve this thread too, while you're at it:
Has a normal shaped/elder item ever dropped for you? Can they even be dropped in their normal item base? I haven't ever seen it. If so, you must assume that they aren't calculated before rarity because it goes against the entire premise of IIR
Irrelevant because of Stygian Vise, but I'm losing my motivation, too. Assume what you want but please refrain from disguising assumptions as facts.
Uhh, what? Vise is an abyss league item. We are talking about elder/shaped.
As for "assumptions as facts". You can and go ahead and quote me where I said it's all "fact", but you'd be hardpressed to find it. But I I'll go ahead and assume that IIR has been working the way it has since beta until told otherwise.
Last edited by Wukufyze#1642 on Jan 9, 2018, 2:35:10 PM
Has a normal shaped/elder item ever dropped for you? Can they even be dropped in their normal item base? I haven't ever seen it. If so, you must assume that they aren't calculated before rarity because it goes against the entire premise of IIR
Irrelevant because of Stygian Vise, but I'm losing my motivation, too. Assume what you want but please refrain from disguising assumptions as facts.
Uhh, what? Vise is an abyss league item. We are talking about elder/shaped.
As for "assumptions as facts". You and go ahead and quote me where I said it's all "fact", but you'd be hardpressed to find it. But I I'll go ahead and assume that IIR has been working the way it has since beta until told otherwise.
Ok, last try:
We know Stygian Vise can only roll rare. So there is a mechanism in the game code that forces rare rarity if an item has rolled a base that must be of at least rare rarity. This same mechanism could be in place for elder items if their elder property would be determined before their rarity.
We know Stygian Vise can only roll rare. So there is a mechanism in the game code that forces rare rarity if an item has rolled a base that must be of at least rare rarity. This same mechanism could be in place for elder items if their elder property would be determined before their rarity.
QED my friend :)
Except your Stygian Vise example is a false equivalence because it is a stand-alone item that isn't in a competing item pool like shaped/elder items would be.
Whether its drop rate checks before or after rarity is completely irrelevant. Although I will say with 100% confidence that increasing your IIR will net you more vises in the long run, because again, it goes back to the entire purpose of IIR to begin with. And if it doesn't, then GGG needs to address the fundamental changes that they've made to IIR.
Last edited by Wukufyze#1642 on Jan 9, 2018, 2:48:29 PM
