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I keep hoping for new keystones that will allow sacrificing one type of minion for another.
For example:
*100% reduced number of zombies. +1 spectre per 4 zombies lost
*100% reduced number of spectres. +2 zombies, +4 skeletons
*100% reduced number of skeletons. +2 zombies or +1 spectre
I dunno, those #s are just made up, but something balanced. Some way to swap one type for another on a permanent basis.
Yeah I considered suggesting something like that for my eternal unique but uniques shouldn't "fix" something like this. It would work much better as a keystone.
Yeah, I agree here. There are already two summoner-specific keystones, which is a bit much proportionally, so I don't know if a keystone is quite the right solution. The fact that zombie and skeleton nodes are the same nodes, right down to the +1/+2 notables, means that there really isn't a such thing as a min-maxed skeleton or min-maxed zombie build. Each might as well use both, because you're skilled optimally for both. I'd really like to make a Skeleton King, but I know it would just drift into the usual minion hodgepodge as I leveled. I wonder if GGG has ever considered splitting off some of the nodes and areas of specialization? There's already a spectre-specific notable.
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Posted byUvneon Feb 12, 2014, 11:46:45 PM
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P.S. Why can we see minion life then on the tooltip?
Because that's feasible to fake - you (and therefore your skills) have a stats for minion base life, minion life increase, and minion total life as calculated from those.
That's feasible because life is a very simple calculation for minions, involving a simple calculation.
Damage stats make up fully half of the stat calculation files, and involve hundreds of calculations, in several layers, with far more inputs that we can't fake for minions like we can life, and even if we could duplicating all of those stats and maintaining separate ones alongside your own damage would be pretty much impossible.
As has been said before, displaying lots of minion stats in the character panel needs a massive refactor of what the character panel is (i.e. no longer just about the character) which is a huge task. It's planned, and will happen eventually. But not soon.
Thank you for clearing that up. Though it still would be nice to have some sort of info, if not in game then on the site (as a quality of life measure untill the time for character panel update comes). Right now we only have the numbers taken from dev's posts, which is not much and often it causes as much confusion as it provides answers.
IGNs
GroovyBeard
JooJooFromTheWell
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Posted byAllnamestakenon Feb 13, 2014, 2:17:41 AM
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A level 68 Raised Zombie (i.e. summoned by a level 20 gem) on a character with no specific minion bonuses, attacks for 468-1093 physical damage.
how does the hatred aura effect zombies?
"You and nearby allies add x% of your Physical Damage as Cold Damage".
is it taking the weapon damage from the summoner and adding that to the minions, or is the damage a percentage of the minions own damage? (of 468-1093 physical damage at L20)
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Posted byKunaakon Feb 16, 2014, 10:33:22 AM
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the damage a percentage of the minions own damage? (of 468-1093 physical damage at L20)
that part. its a slight mistranslation of hatred due to its simplified universal wording. "your" is actually plural and is referring to individual's benefits.
so for both gems lv 20, zombies would deal 168.48 to 393.48 extra damage as cold.
Last edited by soul4hdwn on Feb 16, 2014, 2:17:27 PM
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Posted bysoul4hdwnon Feb 16, 2014, 2:17:12 PM
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I keep hoping for new keystones that will allow sacrificing one type of minion for another.
For example:
*100% reduced number of zombies. +1 spectre per 4 zombies lost
*100% reduced number of spectres. +2 zombies, +4 skeletons
*100% reduced number of skeletons. +2 zombies or +1 spectre
I dunno, those #s are just made up, but something balanced. Some way to swap one type for another on a permanent basis.
Yeah I considered suggesting something like that for my eternal unique but uniques shouldn't "fix" something like this. It would work much better as a keystone.
Yeah, I agree here. There are already two summoner-specific keystones, which is a bit much proportionally, so I don't know if a keystone is quite the right solution. The fact that zombie and skeleton nodes are the same nodes, right down to the +1/+2 notables, means that there really isn't a such thing as a min-maxed skeleton or min-maxed zombie build. Each might as well use both, because you're skilled optimally for both. I'd really like to make a Skeleton King, but I know it would just drift into the usual minion hodgepodge as I leveled. I wonder if GGG has ever considered splitting off some of the nodes and areas of specialization? There's already a spectre-specific notable.
We can hope!
I'm really, really curious to see how corruption affects the minion gems. I'm hoping that will bring more variance to the field.
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Posted byonefinemesson Feb 23, 2014, 12:49:44 AM
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P.S. Why can we see minion life then on the tooltip?
Because that's feasible to fake - you (and therefore your skills) have a stats for minion base life, minion life increase, and minion total life as calculated from those.
That's feasible because life is a very simple calculation for minions, involving a simple calculation.
Damage stats make up fully half of the stat calculation files, and involve hundreds of calculations, in several layers, with far more inputs that we can't fake for minions like we can life, and even if we could duplicating all of those stats and maintaining separate ones alongside your own damage would be pretty much impossible.
As has been said before, displaying lots of minion stats in the character panel needs a massive refactor of what the character panel is (i.e. no longer just about the character) which is a huge task. It's planned, and will happen eventually. But not soon.
You don't really need to give the actual dps values, what you should do is provide people the basic information so they can figure it out for themselves.
Just add values that you need to figure shit out for yourself.
Base damage: X physical attack damage
Base attack speed
Base Lightning, Cold and Fire resits
Base health
Given that basic information it is a very basic calculation for people to work out their minion's dps, their health, etc.
This information should also be given for Skeletons.
Spectres wont work because their stats are linked to the type of mob raised.
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Posted byZvimon Mar 9, 2014, 11:35:50 PM
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Given that basic information it is a very basic calculation for people to work out their minion's dps, their health, etc.
Yes, and at that stage, wouldn't it be equally easy for them to multiply Damage per Hit by Hit Rate by Hit Chance to determine DPS?
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Posted byVipermagion Mar 10, 2014, 9:42:56 AMValued Poster
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Mark, I understand showing the dps in the tool tip require a lots of work.
But instead can u show us the base damage of the zombies from lv21 and onwards?
I can't judge whether empower or +2 minion skills helm would be better than other support gems.
ign: thirsty_guy
GMT+8
http://www.twitch.tv/ray1122
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Posted byraytkhon Mar 11, 2014, 1:19:28 AM
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A small question relating Tooltips.
Would it be doable to display the basic unmodified stats of zombies at the gem (not as tooltip in your bar, just at the gem to not confuse them with actual numbers). I always wondered how fast zombies attack (which you can actually test) and how much damage they do.
Because gems usually give you their basic values. Ethereal knives tells me it does x-y damage even if the skill-tooltip does say something different, because it is modified. So if EK knows it's original values and can show them could minion-gems do the same?
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Posted byEmphasyon Mar 11, 2014, 2:53:39 PM
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Minion damage values can be temporarily found in this document. Balance & Design
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Posted byRoryon Mar 20, 2014, 12:31:09 AMGrinding Gear Games
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