Snapshotting

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robmafia wrote:
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Mark_GGG wrote:
(evasive crap)


*ahem*

from post 1:


The majority of snapshotting is used in minion builds. Support gems and minion-augmenting items are swapped in and out to summon large numbers of unusually strong zombies and spectres without worrying about any of the item downsides.

To be fair, the very next sentence is
"
Raising a spectre and swapping out supports to raise a spectre of a different type allows spectres raised from the same gem to benefit from an entirely different set of support gems.
- as an example of another advantage gained from snapshotting.

I'm worried our correspondence is starting to take up too much of the thread. If you'd like to discuss further where the miscommunication between us began and (hopefully) resolve it, please feel free to PM me.
Oh no, hilariously broken builds will only now be really good builds! The agony!
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Klimentiy wrote:


chill brah.

if you don't like the state/direction of the game, and it seems pretty obvious - don't like the developers - then move the fuck on!

Perhaps try redirecting your energy into something productive instead... just a "hommie" advice bud.


weird. i thought constructive criticism WAS productive.

my bad.

i obviously like the game and give/gave the developers faith - it's WHY i make these posts. if i didn't like the game/see the potential, i wouldn't have bothered posting at all. sorry for trying to mitigate what seems to be a godawful mistake in the midst of the snapshotting fix while trying to give insight into how summoners play.

again, my bad.

the new borderlands can't come out soon enough.
[Removed by Support]
"Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct."

...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz!
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Ilmeria wrote:
Thanks, ruining multiple builds with 1 foul swoop, im impressed really. Lets allow something to persist for so long that people develop builds and start enjoying them. Then not be okay with it anymore and make everyone respec. Its great. Really you guys are awesome. Keep the awesome updates coming.



Joined:
May 29, 2014


troll or smurf? at least post from your real account to have a valid point.


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IGN: ___I_Fink_U_Freeky___

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Other small suggestion: I'd really like to see more ways to give minions dodge/spell dodge, evasion, etc. From a thematic standpoint, I really like the idea of being ninja bros with my Animated Guardian, or just generally having 'nimble' ghouls. From a mechanical standpoint, it would be nice to broaden possible minion defense out from block, general regen/resists, and (kind of) armour.

To continually add to my "let summoners specialize" suggestion: I wouldn't mind a few nodes that prevent you from using other summons entirely, but really beef up the summon you're committed to. I'm primarily thinking of Skeletons and Animated Guardian.
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Mark_GGG wrote:

To be fair, the very next sentence is
"
Raising a spectre and swapping out supports to raise a spectre of a different type allows spectres raised from the same gem to benefit from an entirely different set of support gems.
- as an example of another advantage gained from snapshotting.


how is that an advantage?!

either way, one has the same amount of spectres with the same amount of supports! there's no net gain. there's no downside that's bypassed - except boredom.

monotony aside - what difference does it make if you have 4 5L spectres with the same supports vs 4 5L spectres with individual supports - as long as the amount of supports is equal to or lesser than the available slots?

the only gain i see from it is that it's way less boring to mix it up than to have 4 evangelists or 4 tentacle creations or 4 burning miscreations or 4 archer statues or 4 colossal skeletons or 4 necromancers or 4 snakes or 4 bears or etc.
[Removed by Support]
"Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct."

...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz!
"
robmafia wrote:
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Klimentiy wrote:


chill brah.

if you don't like the state/direction of the game, and it seems pretty obvious - don't like the developers - then move the fuck on!

Perhaps try redirecting your energy into something productive instead... just a "hommie" advice bud.


weird. i thought constructive criticism WAS productive.

my bad.

i obviously like the game and give/gave the developers faith - it's WHY i make these posts. if i didn't like the game/see the potential, i wouldn't have bothered posting at all. sorry for trying to mitigate what seems to be a godawful mistake in the midst of the snapshotting fix while trying to give insight into how summoners play.

again, my bad.

the new borderlands can't come out soon enough.


I went through the same stage man... then i just quit playing. My struggle was FPS lag with CoC and packets dropped on their end resulting in additional desynch... I just took a deep breath and stopped playing (after whining and moaning on forums for few months). If something bothers you that much, it is best to just let it rest. Move on to something else until things get "fixed" to please you. Personally, I am still waiting, occasionally checking subreddit to see the state of the game.
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IGN: ___I_Fink_U_Freeky___

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Hey Mark,

Thanks so much for answering all of our questions. Must be tiring given the varying degrees of quality from this thread's questions.
No problem. It's been an experience, to be sure, but I do relish these opportunities to interact with the community.
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I'm interested to hear about (potentially) more changes to RF's snapshotting. We've already established that activating RF then replacing it with a completely unrelated set of skill and support gems (hell, even a Kaom's) WILL STILL WORK under the (currently) planned changes.

zSavage has also posted another similar question in another thread:
snip

My assumption based on the information in this thread is that this will also WORK. And I'm also assuming that the dev team DOESN'T want that to work, but it's a much more technically challenging case to tackle.
We don't (ideally) want Righteous Fire to be able to snapshot. We do want Righteous Fire to not be something you can "turn off" by just removing the gem - it's a fundamental part of the skill's design that you must either include elements in your build that allow you to manage it, or suffer the burning until your last life point.

These two goals are somewhat at odds, as the basic non-snapshotting version on Righteous Fire would be one that did turn off when you removed it's gem.

Technical stuff:
Under the new system, the action-in-progress is notified that its skill has been modified, and passed a pointer to the new, up-to-date skill. In the case of the gem being removed, this is a null pointer, indicating the old skill been replaced with nothing rather than a new version.
Most skills react to this notification by updating their own internal skill reference to the new pointer, and deleting if it was null. Righteous Fire instead will, if passed a null pointer, keep its current pointer to the old skill. While that skill is no longer available to your character to use, it will still exist as long as the action-in-progress maintains a pointer to it.
So the RF action-in-progress in this case keeps its pointer to the obsolete skill. That skill contains all the stats of the skill gem and support gems that make it up, and also is linked to your character's stats. Since the skill is no longer tied to a gem, changes to the gem can't update the skill (including changes to what's linked to the gem). Because the skill is still linked to your character's stats, it will still update based on changes to those (gear, passives, etc).
Making it lose all the support gems would require that instead it created it's own new skill, based on the one it has, but without the supports included, and then kept a pointer to that. But creating a new skill is technically more challenging and would cause some problems.

We're currently looking into some solutions like keeping the part where it burns yourself, but removing the enemy burning and/or spell damage, so you couldn't escape burning yourself, but do need to keep the gem socketed to get actual use out of it. At this point I can't say if that's the path we'll take or not, or even if anything will change from the article before 1.2.0. As I said, I'll do my best to keep you guys up to date.
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robmafia wrote:
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Mark_GGG wrote:

To be fair, the very next sentence is
"
Raising a spectre and swapping out supports to raise a spectre of a different type allows spectres raised from the same gem to benefit from an entirely different set of support gems.
- as an example of another advantage gained from snapshotting.


how is that an advantage?!

either way, one has the same amount of spectres with the same amount of supports! there's no net gain. there's no downside that's bypassed - except boredom.

monotony aside - what difference does it make if you have 4 5L spectres with the same supports vs 4 5L spectres with individual supports - as long as the amount of supports is equal to or lesser than the available slots?

the only gain i see from it is that it's way less boring to mix it up than to have 4 evangelists or 4 tentacle creations or 4 burning miscreations or 4 archer statues or 4 colossal skeletons or 4 necromancers or 4 snakes or 4 bears or etc.


If you have two different types of spectres, 1 type supported with 5 support gems and the other type supported with 4 other support gems, you have a net 9 support gems for the cost of one item and 1 minion gem. Surely you can see how that is unfair compared to other builds?
GGG as a summoner you are stealing 8x gem slots from me when this goes live. Guess what? I LIKE the gems I have in those slots. You may as well just go ahead and remove all the minion gems from the game right now.

Throw me a bone...8x gem slots for what? I lose tons of gems/diversity...what do I gain that will keep my game-play experience at least on par? Tell me why I will want to continue to play a summoner after this goes live.

Seriously if you don't overbuff minion damage/hp who would ever want to play a summoner with such restrictive gem options.


IGN=ZeroLooper

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