Suggestions for Race Season 8

Even though there will always be some amount of RNG involved in racing (good thing, otherwise every race would be the same and it would become boring), i would like some elements to be adjusted that either are incredibly frustrating or give too much of an advantage.

These suggestions are mainly for signature races because RNG matters way more than just winning a random competitive event.

Also, I think, in order for racing to be an enjoyable experience, it needs to have certain differences from the core game - some of them are already implemented, for example, rogue exiles.
So take that into account when reading these suggestions. They are meant for racing and may or may not be implemented in the core game.



Suggestions:


1) Movement speed RNG

Personally, i think this is the biggest factor for everyone who doesnt Leap Slam.
Its my first priority in every race to get that 10ms asap. I pickup every single pair of boots to see if they have ms. My alchs and chances and vaal orbs all go to boots unless i already have ms.
Having a movement speed recipe requiring a quicksilver (QS) is not really giving players a choice. It may seem like one, but its a fake choice.
You would never do the recipe with the QS you get from hailrake. Even if one QS drops, i use them both. I start doing the recipe if a 2nd QS drops.

I would like the Avian Slippers (implicit +10%ms boots) to drop from the starting zombie.
You can make them drop "Corrupted" so it won't be a "hit" or "miss" chance to roll another 10%ms on them or just remove the possibility to roll ms.

Correct usage of Quicksilver Flasks is a skill in racing so on one hand i would like them to remain in the game but on another, the "pray to RNG gods a QS drops" every race is something that I would want to be addressed.
You can't simply prevent it from dropping because everyone would mule hailrake.
Adding a vendor recipe to create a QS alleviates the problem a little because if the recipe is accessible enough, you will eventually get it in a race. But it doesn't mean the RNG factor is removed, it just shifts the RNG into the materials needed for the recipe.
Much like the IPD or the +1 recipe, if you don't get the materials then you are even more behind compared to other players that got them.

I don't know an easy solution for this - maybe don't allow players to equip more than one quicksilver on their potion bar.



2) Base item RNG

The next thing i get frustrated the most with racing, after movement speed, is the base item rng. That includes not having a white resistance ring on the vendor or not getting a 2nd tier 2hander drop (jade chopper / tribal maul) or not having a jade/amber amulet (depends on class) or not having potions at the appropriate level on the vendor.

I don't get why white items are not always on the vendor. You could argue that its a skill to have to adapt to not having these things but imho that skill is not that important and its one of the most frustrating experiences you have while racing.
Specially when you have zones like Sins2/3 which i think are designed in a way that players are meant to have a lightning ring for example.

Not having a 2nd tier 2hander when you reach coves is also very bad and i think the drop rates should be increased. It also doesn't help that every single 2nd tier 2hander base type costs a whetstone which is hard enough to have by that time and you actually need (another) one to use on the weapon for the IPD recipe.

Its the same with not being able to buy a jade amulet when racing as witch for example and not being able to level fire trap as a result.

Not being able to buy a 2nd fire ring for docks (since dogs are the racer's best friends and their damage is totally balanced) because you get a bunch of double res rings at that point is also terrible.


3) Mob density RNG

While this particular RNG type affects race modes where you can't reset zones the most (D, DC), it does matter a lot in other race modes aswell.
The difference between having a blue pack of 1 vs a blue pack of 7 is huge when it happens over and over and over again.

I'm ok with zones/mob packs having different density, my suggestion is to change the difference between the low end and the top end of whats possible so it isn't as big.
This is very noticeable in this seasons' signature docks because you don't have enough docks farming time to normalize this layer of RNG.



I think these three are the main sources of my frustration when racing in PoE and the ones i feel are the most important to be addressed.
But there are other areas who could also get some attention...



4) Map Layout RNG

I don't know if the next sig is going to be fixed seed or not (there are valid arguments for and against it) but, if its not fixed seed, having a corrupted zone spawn in certain areas where its very hard to predict it is one (lower prison for example) might easily lose you minutes.
Layouts generated which shrines in certain places can also provide a huge boost or sometimes practically end the race there.

Again, it comes down to recognizing map layouts is a skill that you can train/develop. But how much do you want this skill to matter vs the frustration it causes to hit huge deadends.
I think a balance is not hard to achieve where you generate layouts that still have deadends but they are small so the skill still matters but you don't lose minutes running around in prison/sins/waterfall cave.



5) RNG that is too favourable

Although a topic that i don't see get much attention, what happens if for example a signature record gets set by a competent racer finding wanderlust of hillock and that happening on a "good enough" run.
I know you want OP items in the early game so people can twink and lvl their chars effortlessly in the core game, but having a unique item that is incomparable to anything else you might get and possibly setting an unbreakable record in a signature race is something i think you might wanna address.



6) Balance

This is probably the hardest one to get right and it will have to be done incrementally and it will change from time to time with ptree updates and skills getting added left and right.
Balance is such a huge topic in and of itself and these forums are a good source to get feedback on what the racing community thinks.

I would start at looking at bows and 1handed weapons (dual wield or not) as the areas that need the most love.

Also, sometimes a "quick" balance change is good for the game.
For example, its not hard to give Shadows flameblast in Descent and DChamps to make them more competitive even if its a temporary solution until 1h builds get addressed.



That's it! Thank you for reading.

"

tagpt wrote:

5) RNG that is too favourable

Although a topic that i don't see get much attention, what happens if for example a signature record gets set by a competent racer finding wanderlust of hillock and that happening on a "good enough" run.
I know you want OP items in the early game so people can twink and lvl their chars effortlessly in the core game, but having a unique item that is incomparable to anything else you might get and possibly setting an unbreakable record in a signature race is something i think you might wanna address.

Wanderlust isn't even the worst offender there tbh. Briskwrap dude, that item totally blows my mind.

Movement Speed
Attack Speed
Insane Evasion which basically makes you invincible early on


And worst of all its a chest XD

Lets hope and pray that devs at least will read first couple sentences.

"

jstq wrote:

Lets hope and pray that devs at least will read first couple sentences.

Should report it as hate speech.

ps, I agree with everything. Especially docks rng. Packs should not randomly spawn between 1-12 blue mobs. At least make it 5-8 or so.

Removing too much RNG would make racing very bland and stale. I find the fixed seed races really boring after awhile. I do agree with some of the rng needing to be toned down a bit, but the more RNG you remove the bigger the remaining RNG will become.

For example: guaranteeing 10 ms off the vendor will just make it so instead of complaining for not getting MS boots you will be complaining about not getting 15% ms boots by mervil.

I want to see 1handed classes get some love, along with bows. I think its pretty funny how dual wielders not only get screwed in having shittier weapons/skills, the IPD recipe requires them to craft double the amount of mats compared to a 2 handed user. Honestly the recipe should work exactly like the chaos orb recipe: You either put in a 2 hander or 2 one-handers..

"

Rithz wrote:

For example: guaranteeing 10 ms off the vendor will just make it so instead of complaining for not getting MS boots you will be complaining about not getting 15% ms boots by mervil.

You are the third person today that I heard say this and I still think it's nonsense.

What you guys don't understand is that having 0%ms instead of 15%ms is a whole different level of bullshit than having 10% ms instead of 15%. Sure if you "only" have 10%ms you are still getting shafted compared to someone who found 15%, but at least it's not a "well might aswell log" level of bullshit.

edit: I mean at this point it's like GGG put some players in a Ferrari and some other players in a Caterham-Renault.

"What's a Caterham-Renault?" I hear you ask... to which my response is: "Exactly."

Maybe act 3 needs to be changed so more strategies will appear, instead of this docks grind? Maybe add some lvl 33 zone with lighting damage mobs, lvl 31 with cold damage mobs, etc... In the end you should adjust your strategy to the items that you got and do the best. Right now you dont have much choice. But maybe if you got sick lighting res gear, you can choose to go to different zone and level there.
Same with descent champions, extend it with 3 more levels and it will definitely change everything. But now you need to be lucky and make the right choice: should I rush to halls? Should I full clear 1st zone or I should gave more time to the other ones to be sure that I clear them fully? The one wrong decision will ruin your run because if you didn't clear 1st zone and rest will crap - you will end up with level 25. If you clear 1st zone but get crazy density at 3rd - you probably have no time do full clear it...

Docks normal should be dropped down to a level 30 or 31 zone for starters. Then buff a different zone to open up some options. Perhaps raise Catacombs to level 31 and Solaris 2 to level 32.

Solaris 2

Tag, you said it yourself, that if you remove too much RNG from racing, it would feel stale and boring :p

If you make the starting zombie drop 10% ms boots and solve the QS problem, the "RNG blame" would just shift to the next item in the item-chain:
- boots with more ms (5% ms still gives you around 40s per 30 min)
- gloves with dmg/AS
- jewelry with dmg/AS/CS
- life gear
- etc etc

Let me remind you of what was happening before the IPD recipe, races went like this: "Oh I had 3 alchemies, 2 chaos orbs and didn't get a single damage roll on my double axe, while the other f***er got a rare 100% ipd weapon from vaal". Now it's: "Oh I didn't get a single whetstone before Act 2, no superior weapons dropped, didn't have a rare rustic for my final weapon". Did the IPD recipe improve racing in general? At this point i would say, yes it did. Did it remove the RNG from racing? Only some part of it.

To me it feels like all the dissatisfaction about RNG comes from the sig races, i don't hear people complain this much about the regular (say 1 hour solo) ones. Signature races are what they are. a chance to make a run at the record with the RNG you get in that specific race. All there is to do is to try your best with the stuff you get. There is no point in raging or saying that "I wouldn't get the record at this point", because you never know what might happen next. Vaal can drop you wideswing. Blood rage may drop. You can have dumster/godlike docks density. If one tries to get a perfect run, he might as well log out if he didn't get ms from the vendor.

I would love to see some positive changes to bow and one handers. I also have to say that right now we probably have the most balanced meta, because all 3 core builds (leap, ST, caster) achieve roughly the same results in signatures. Finally i fully support the idea of improving the champion packs density in docks from 1-12 to 5-8. I wish the races were longer though, that way all the RNG could even itself out :(