One Week Races Awarding 1000 pt prize as Random Raffle

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reboticon wrote:

I honestly don't get what the big deal is considering many people sell them off. It it was account bound I'd understand the "trophy" aspect, but since it's not it's basically just a void battery which is not super hard to get. I see people with demis all the time who didn't earn them, someone sold it to them. I'll never have one because I wouldn't want one if I didn't win it, but does that not also offend your sensibilities, or am I overlooking something?

Same principle applies. Sure, you could -in theory- sell any trophy you win in real life aswell. But the value of the trophy (in most cases) is directly tied to what a person has to accomplish to earn it. By handing out trophies to people who did not accomplish the same things as others, not only are you de-valuing the trophy itself but belittling the achievements of the people who actually earned the trophy by putting in alot of effort.

The point is not (necessarily) that people are emotionally tied to the trophy (as a "thing"), that's irrelevant, the point is that the value of the trophy (not just emotional value, but actual value - at least in part) is directly tied to the accomplishment behind it (in this case earning 1000 season points or more).

I mean in theory you could just as easily argue that (like I already said) kids with autism should all get their own world cup trophy, that is qualitatively no different to the world cup trophy that the best team in the world wins every world cup.

But of course we don't give kids with autism their own world cup trophies because people can see the absurdity in that, but for some reason that I don't quite understand people are unable to recognize that seem absurdity in path of exile or games in general. Here it's like we are living in wonderland where nothing counts for shit and anything goes, any values we might hold in the real world really aren't worth a damn in video games.

Part of the reason this community frustrates me so much is because time and time again I get these nonsensical arguments that could be used to undermine anything.

"its just a game, only emotional"
"don't like it, don't play it".

I mean platitudes like that get us absolutely nowhere for christ's sake.

The 1k prize can be achieved by any above average racer with alot of spare time on their hands- theyre essentially glorified participation awards. As such i dont see a problem with a couple being handed out in 1-week events, especially considering theyre most likely to be won by the top ranked players anyway.

This complaint would have been far more warranted if theyd started handing out random alt demis instead.

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KoTao wrote:

This complaint would have been far more warranted if theyd started handing out random alt demis instead.

Why? I have 5 of those from last season. Or 6, I don't even know. I have one 1k prize.

Any accomplishment in this game is a mere function of time, no shit. I don't think, or at least hope not, that anyone with more than a few hundred races under their belt thinks that skill plays a real role in top end racing.
But if you have something as the ultimate prize for the time put in, it's not something that should be raffled off.

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KoTao wrote:

especially considering theyre most likely to be won by the top ranked players anyway.

Nope. That's just incorrect. Even in an extreme example where 3 players had a combined 20% chance to win and 10000 players had a combined 80% chance to win the probability overall would've still been much higher for the 10000 players, even if every one of the 3 players had an almost 7% chance to win (much higher than for any of the 10000 players).

It's really a good example of a fallacy of equivocation, because you are referencing the chance to win of an individual of a specific group compared to the chance to win of an individual of some other group, even though what you are actually talking about are the groups to which they belong and not the individuals themselves.

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SlixSC wrote:

Spoiler

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reboticon wrote:

I honestly don't get what the big deal is considering many people sell them off. It it was account bound I'd understand the "trophy" aspect, but since it's not it's basically just a void battery which is not super hard to get. I see people with demis all the time who didn't earn them, someone sold it to them. I'll never have one because I wouldn't want one if I didn't win it, but does that not also offend your sensibilities, or am I overlooking something?

Same principle applies. Sure, you could -in theory- sell any trophy you win in real life aswell. But the value of the trophy (in most cases) is directly tied to what a person has to accomplish to earn it. By handing out trophies to people who did not accomplish the same things as others, not only are you de-valuing the trophy itself but belittling the achievements of the people who actually earned the trophy by putting in alot of effort.

The point is not (necessarily) that people are emotionally tied to the trophy (as a "thing"), that's irrelevant, the point is that the value of the trophy (not just emotional value, but actual value - at least in part) is directly tied to the accomplishment behind it (in this case earning 1000 season points or more).

I mean in theory you could just as easily argue that (like I already said) kids with autism should all get their own world cup trophy, that is qualitatively no different to the world cup trophy that the best team in the world wins every world cup.

But of course we don't give kids with autism their own world cup trophies because people can see the absurdity in that, but for some reason that I don't quite understand people are unable to recognize that seem absurdity in path of exile or games in general. Here it's like we are living in wonderland where nothing counts for shit and anything goes, any values we might hold in the real world really aren't worth a damn in video games.

Part of the reason this community frustrates me so much is because time and time again I get these nonsensical arguments that could be used to undermine anything.

"its just a game, only emotional"
"don't like it, don't play it".

I mean platitudes like that get us absolutely nowhere for christ's sake.

I understand everything you are saying here which is why I find it so peculiar when people sell off demis, but, then again, I don't know who sells off the demis, I just know I see a lot of people with them who didn't win them. And I guess if you have 50 of them you might think "fuck it why not get some currency for it" but it does seem to me that, as you say, it cheapens the accomplishment for everyone else who gets a demi, especially someone with only one or two of them. I've just never seen anyone complain about people selling off demis, but it is very possible they did so in the past before I payed attention to racing in general.

I guess, to me, the demi is more of an impressive accomplishment. Literally anyone can get the 1,000 point reward if they just get 7 points a race and don't miss races in the season, and 7 points is pretty easy to pull off, where as with Demis, it's almost always the same 20-25 people who them.

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boof wrote:

Any accomplishment in this game is a mere function of time, no shit. I don't think, or at least hope not, that anyone with more than a few hundred races under their belt thinks that skill plays a real role in top end racing.

It takes somewhat more knowledge/focus/whatever to take top 3 in a sig than it does to grind out a load of 10th to 20th place results. But yeah, time, luck and other factors play a larger role than skill at the top end of the ladders, and the skill ceilings pretty damn low to begin with.

Racing hasnt exactly turned out to be skill-intensive competition, has it? Its much like the rest of the game, just another rng-fueled grind.

Cant see a problem with a couple random alt arts getting handed out to lucky noobs under the circumstances. For that matter, considering the presense of map/zoom hacking in signatures, i wouldnt really care if they started raffling out alt demis as well.

i don't understand why someone winning a lottery would diminish your sense of achievement for getting 1000 points. Does it happen to you in real life too? like if someone wins a lottery and then you get your nice big well earned paycheck does it give you a sense of less accomplishment for holding a job and earning a living? if someone finds a 1000 bucks on the ground does that make your 1000 bucks earned at a job have any less meaning?

if so, you should probably spend some time thinking about your issues with how the world works. preferably with the help of a professional

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Antistes wrote:

i don't understand why someone winning a lottery would diminish your sense of achievement for getting 1000 points. Does it happen to you in real life too? like if someone wins a lottery and then you get your nice big well earned paycheck does it give you a sense of less accomplishment for holding a job and earning a living? if someone finds a 1000 bucks on the ground does that make your 1000 bucks earned at a job have any less meaning?

if so, you should probably spend some time thinking about your issues with how the world works. preferably with the help of a professional

The original complaint assumes racing exists primarily for the purpose of competition, so the comparison to making money irl doesnt hold. Acquiring currency is competitive in a broad sense, but its not done primarily for competitions sake; its just a means to an end. A comparison to the olympics and gold medals might have been a bit more on target.

Also, i give your final sentence standard worm out of 10- wont catch anything exotic, but one of the please_refrain bots might bite.

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KoTao wrote:

especially considering theyre most likely to be won by the top ranked players anyway.

A top player is more like to win it than a non top player. But a group of 10000 non top players is more likely to take the prize home than the group of 30 top players.

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Hassefar60 wrote:

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KoTao wrote:

especially considering theyre most likely to be won by the top ranked players anyway.

A top player is more like to win it than a non top player. But a group of 10000 non top players is more likely to take the prize home than the group of 30 top players.

still only one of them wins the top prize, so i really don't see the big deal. it doesn't make reaching 1000 points any less meaningful, at least is shouldn't unless someone is seriously insecure