How PVP based Tournaments should look like not to be an entire failure.

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Hilbert wrote:

And again the WoW+ generation shows up.
Did you ever play D2 Classic before LoD? You needed like 10 Mf runs and you had low level PVP EQ!.
The uniques were common, sets and gemhelmets too. The only rare items were rare Martels and Lances but they weren't that superior to common items anyway.
That's how ARPG PVP should be.

But PoE is a grinding hell and that's why there are barely any PVP players. Mechanics making sense in PVM are highly overpowered in PVP.

This was even worse in CB, when penetraion penetrated like 56% resists on level 18.

You are mostly right in this regard (except that I never played WoW, thus do not count myself among the WoW+ generation, especially as I DID play D2 classic, as I have stated in another post in this thread already). Though I think there are two sides to the whole gear issue, but I have explained that earlier, you totally refuse to understand so I will proverbially "save my breath"...

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Hilbert wrote:

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Also, if the problem was only the gearadvantage of veteran PvPers, how xome that experienced duelers are also the better duelers in the new leagues? If gear would the only factor, shouldn´t it be different?

Counterquestion who is PVPing but the "experienced pvpers"? PVP is pretty much dead because it's bad.

How come in CT events on equal level PVP without bad mannered play (rushing to a high level and killing low players) players not being known to be PVPers or racers do good?
Sure they get killed by rushers at some point but till then they do really good and those players don't act like the ordinary player trying to run away.

Well, here you are wrong, because you compare apples to oranges. CT races are races. So no wonder A) racers dominate who do not focus on completing or perfecting a build, but rather have more experience in dealing with subpar gear and making sth out of it. And B) people dominate who simply were lucky enough to drop a Geofri, Wanderlust or anything similar that can counter or out-dps most other chars. And it is totally fine that those people win the races, but there should be the opposite too. A mode, where you can actually focus on perfecting a character, acquiring countergear, different weapon- and skillsets for different opponents and so on, in short: the arena type of PvP. The Diablo 2 PvP (classic and LoD), your example of perfect PvP in ARPGs, was and still is rather similar to the latter than the former btw.

Also, at least on Domination, I frequently run into new players (and absolutely no veteran PvPer I know from Standard) that have more "serious" builds. The thing is, those are really beginner builds and they make beginner mistakes that are NOT based on their gearlvl in any way. Get what I want to say? They play builds that were effective in Open Beta or have a solid base but miss the whole knowledge about how to counter this or that... The veterans are better because they can anticipate more situations due to their experience and knowledge about the game, despite the lack of OP gear.
And imo, if we ever had a cutthroat race of like 2 weeks length, I am pretty sure it would in the later phase rather be dominated by experienced PvPers. Or if we had a void-league tournament like you suggested in the OP, where you would have 4 weeks before the actual tournament to gear your char, we would probably see the same.


regards

Do you really believe it requires "Skill" to spam a skill which will one shot other players on certain links?

Look at the new uniques for example.

The mace and the helmet specially, how likely is it that RF will be the most common PVP build again?

800 Str str means 260% damage on a low life Redbreak+Pa dualwield you are at 230% damage.

But that's not all you can boost damage with Physical damage nodes and you will use the +5 Max Fire resist shield.

The Result is that you don't even have to be low life anymore and you can easily kill other players with Permanent dualcurse+Penetration.

This has nothing to do with skill.


The case you are describing are casual players.

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A) racers dominate who do not focus on completing or perfecting a build, but rather have more experience in dealing with subpar gear and making sth out of it.

I don't talk about bad mannered CT players rushing to act2 avoiding conflict till they are overleveled. That's a thing that should be fixed for good max invadable level = yourlevel -3.

I talk about players like metagross, r_w_b etc.
They don't do bad mannered crap and they invade all the time yet they manage to survive.

Racers with streams got butchered at ledge->lower prison already when they attempted to invade.

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B) people domitae who simply were lucky enough to drop a Geofri, Wanderlust or anything similar that can counter or out-dps most other chars.

Mods got buffed Geofri isn't that strong anymore and the Freeze issue is another annoying issue.
Players shouldn't be able to be Freezelocked by other players.

Freeze with Cold Snap. Ok that skill isn't spamable.
Freezing Pulse, Glacial Hammer, Ice Spear, Ice Arrow etc. on the other side are totally broken.
Chill is already a powerful mechanic in PVP. Do you really need Freeze and Freezelock?

And I also should remind you that PVP GN was originally named BnetD and you will most likely understand who ran those servers? PVP players totally unsatisfied with LoD changes in terms of grinding and missing balance.

The amount of players willing to grind for months is already low and the amount of them being pvpers is even lower.

Hilbert, pvp tournaments will never be in race fashion. If they did it would be the most boring type of pvp ever. whoever gets the most lucky will dominate everyone, which is how most races work already. Just suck it up and go to end game pvp, they will not screw over all the dedicated pvpers who have perfected there builds gear and play style just for the sake of making it "fair."

Also if you think there is no skill involved in end game pvp you clearly havent had enough practice with real pvpers.

Stick to races, it sounds like they suit you better anyways.