How PVP based Tournaments should look like not to be an entire failure.

"

I've spent the last 3-4 weeks farming for LLD and grinding for merc PVP. I don't regret any of it unless I find out last minute that all of that work was for nothing. I actually enjoy MFing when it's for a purpose. I farmed gneiss 12 hours a day for 2 weeks straight in CB trying to get perfect items for my build. I recently spent over a week farming for LLD, grinding so hard GGG's system auto banned me thinking I was a bot. I don't want this taken away. One, because I enjoy it. Two, because I've done the work.

Do you really think it should be intended that way you grind your brains out with "LLD max level mobs" and get banned?
This is just poor design!

I can assure you the majority of players won't do this or they really will use bots and this is why level 28 will fail.
Great way to promote level 28 PVP: "Hey I wanted to make a level 28 PVPer and grinded cruel Gneiss, Merveil and Calaf for PVP items and then GGG banned me"

There isn't even a Low level PVP market. You have the small amount of players and that's it.
Games popular in Dial Up times have more competition.

"

If there's a 24 hour window, that means the minimum amount of time someone needs to invest would be 24 hours.

Do you really read my posting or do you only read snippets.

First off you don't have got any access to your stash!
Secondly you can overlevel and drop out of level 28 tournaments.
Sure you can grind level 21 areas some time or level 15 but the interesting level 28 weapons drop in level 26+ areas.
Sure you can create several characters but then again the term "Stupid MMO Player" is fitting because those players don't understand that the time window is intended for casual players and it is optional just like the amount races in season 2.
And then some body complains "OMG there are too many races I can't play regular PoE anymore"

The 24h window is targeting players who can't rush a level 28 character in 2h and need 5-6 or even more. Those players play 1 hour eat dinner and player 1h again.
If players some players are that stupid the characterlimit should be set to 1 per 24h period.

The goal is to create a PVP mode with a large audience. What do you think will happen if you only have a scoreboard tournament mode?

"

Again, if it's in addition to a normal PVP ladder, sweet. But if PVP is like races to fuck that.

Yes it is an addition because I am a PVP type player and you will never see me playing endgame anymore as long the game is this brainless slow MMO Grinding-->No characters on High Level PVP

You also won't see me on level 28 PVP because it's pointless while I could create a somehow OK character on HC I wouldn't have any fun because I know there are like 4-6 players having grinded their brains out of perfect EQ and the majority joins with random level 28 character dying in 1 hit.

If you're interested in long term ways to balance cutthroat, there's a decent reddit post on the subject.

Generally, though, what would make for a fun and action packed permanent cut throat league would not be anything like the hardcore-lose all your shit-griefing incarnations we've seen so far. It would be best based on incentives and punishments and mediumcore mechanics.

But really, if the fun is from killing developed characters, we may as well have a PK league.

i don't understand whats so bad about having to grind for pvp gear.. it's really not a big deal to get the gear when it comes to lld.
Most players have at least 1 high lvl pvm character. These players could invest some of their wealth to tweak their pvp char (just like i did).
20% qual gems maybe important but since we all know that lvl20+gcp = 20% quality it's pretty easy to either buy or level those gems.

imo it should be about balancing certain skills and restricting use of op legacy items.

Hilbert, while I agree with some of your views about how the end game is very grindy, wtf was D2 then? I didn't play very long and I have thousands of baal/cow runs under my belt. If you played open PVP there you were grinding for a while regardless. I see nothing different here.

You want cutthroat events, I get it, but I don't think that should be the only or the main PVP ladder format. There's less variety in cutthroat than there is at lvl 28. My friend has 10-20 LLD builds, all function well, some are only good in certain situations others in another. I personally have 3.

Also you misunderstood the banning. My speed and zeal was similar to that of a bot. After talking to Chris it's not easy for a player to get picked up by this. I basically only farmed for over a week straight, didn't chat, didn't hangout in town, trade, nothing, just farm. I don't mind grindfest if there's an end goal in mind. I can do any mindless task for long periods of time if it allows me to reach the goal I've set for myself.

I'm not sure what ARPG you've played that doesn't require a ton of grinding but the ones I've played all require it. I don't think the people who have spent a long time putting together builds should but stuck with what's essentially hobby PVP because you don't want to put in the same time as everyone else.

If you want to play cutthroat I'm sure they'll have it but there will be a lot of rage from PVP players who have been preparing for the PVP season for a while now.

I also flat out don't understand why you still play. You seem to hate the game. You posts give no sense that you want to be here and that you're actually mad at the devs. I dislike some of their decisions but I still think it's an excellent game. I never get that sense from you. Whenever I read your stuff it sounds like someone angry at their job, but have no back up so they can't quit.

Relax or play another game dude. You get so defensive and aggressive whenever someone disagrees with you.

"

i don't understand whats so bad about having to grind for pvp gear.. it's really not a big deal to get the gear when it comes to lld.

You have to grind that much that you will be considered as bot?
Think again.
You can also say the drop rates are horrible.

What would you have done if the support said:"Nah you are botting you post at the same times you play, you stay banned"

And expect that to happen once botters found out how they can unban their accounts:
"I wanted to find pvpitem X that's why I grinded that spot for hours and hours over weeks"

"

Most players have at least 1 high lvl pvm character. These players could invest some of their wealth to tweak their pvp char (just like i did).

To be insulted by bad mannered traders if they offer only 5 chaos orbs instead of 50?
Due nerfed vendor receipes it's not like I have any wealth anyway and if I sell some Demigod amus they only end up on some RMT sites and it is very likely that the currency is RMT currency too. It's just like the cheap monthly attempt of new accounts pming every ranked player if they would sell them a high tier alt item for cash.

"

20% qual gems maybe important but since we all know that lvl20+gcp = 20% quality it's pretty easy to either buy or level those gems.

I was ranked 4th/5th the most time after the last wipe in CB I had only level 18 and 19 gems.
The playtime was about the same as my only level 79 OB character.
And you claim it's "Pretty Easy" to get 20% gems if getting level 20 gems is already a pain in the ass.
On top you get stupid MMO Grinding gems such as empower and enhance.

"

Hilbert, while I agree with some of your views about how the end game is very grindy, wtf was D2 then? I didn't play very long and I have thousands of baal/cow runs under my belt. If you played open PVP there you were grinding for a while regardless. I see nothing different here.

I talk about D2 (Classic) not D2 LoD. D2 Lod and 1.10 are different cases since they had huge balance issues.

D2 Classic low level PVP items were based on normal uniques, sets and some rares/socketet/white items.
Those were really easy to find.
This kind of PVP was Skill based.

High Level PVP in D2 Classic was mainly Leap Attack PVP or frozen Orb spamming(one reason they added the delay)

D2 Lod had nothing to do with skill anymore. Poisoncharms, Buri+clegclaws, charm management, 75% reduce.
You saw main Bow Ama, WWbarbs Maxblock 75% reduce, Nova Orb Sorcs with max reduce. Some smite/chargers.

1.10 was a mess the low end builds with perfect gear had damage like the high end builds from without any decent gear.

"

You want cutthroat events, I get it, but I don't think that should be the only or the main PVP ladder format. There's less variety in cutthroat than there is at lvl 28. My friend has 10-20 LLD builds, all function well, some are only good in certain situations others in another. I personally have 3.

I want a variety of PVP formats not just a scoreboard for MMORPG Grinding results.
PVP Tournaments will become popular as Blamt races. From 30+ pages to like 10 pages on participants.

"

Also you misunderstood the banning. My speed and zeal was similar to that of a bot. After talking to Chris it's not easy for a player to get picked up by this. I basically only farmed for over a week straight, didn't chat, didn't hangout in town, trade, nothing, just farm. I don't mind grindfest if there's an end goal in mind. I can do any mindless task for long periods of time if it allows me to reach the goal I've set for myself.

And now compare what would have happened if you only grinded from time to time.
Would your character use the same equipment? This has nothing to do with your behaviour. This has to do with horrible drop rates.
In CB the thicket chest dropped several rares and all you had to do are thicket runs or merv runs. You did 2-3h and had some PVP EQ and Chaos Orbs.
Now the chests drop crap. The bosses have far lower chances on PVP items and in the end you get some chance orbs. That's just bad design.

"

I'm not sure what ARPG you've played that doesn't require a ton of grinding but the ones I've played all require it. I don't think the people who have spent a long time putting together builds should but stuck with what's essentially hobby PVP because you don't want to put in the same time as everyone else.

The amount of grinding is essential!
PoE tries to be the grindiest game ever.
Where is the risk reward? In other Arpgs you get a linear items and gold progression.
In PoE the currency drop rates are always the same without penalties but your killspeed gets reduced.
Do you really thing players should invest several months of playtime to get a decent PVP character?
Welcome to the average gearbased Game with PVP. Remember D3? I didn't even realize they had PVP at some point because the entire game is only gearbased.
Do you see full PVP Queues? Do you see players asking for PVP in chat? PVP in PoE isn't popular and if it's just a scoreboard it will never be.

"

If you want to play cutthroat I'm sure they'll have it but there will be a lot of rage from PVP players who have been preparing for the PVP season for a while now.

And what if a dev announces something like that: Due to legacy items all Tournaments will be held in Nemesis league?

I don't care if every player gets perfect equipment for free and it gets voided. I want to see many different players, with different playstyles on balanced characters.
I don't want to to see white Spiked Maul again alsmost 300 damage rare 2h Staff.
I don't care if all players are able to get to ledge and instead of Rocky Climbs they get send into the PVP Arena but everything would be better than a small fraction of player specific PVP.

"

I also flat out don't understand why you still play.

I am not playing outside of races. If races get a far worse shedule you won't see me racing anymore. And never will play endgame content anymore as long the game is MMOesque or there are Usercode leagues which allow players to undo horrible changes such as Chaos Resists.
Or the devs should finally revise their claim they are creating an ARPG and should finally call it a MMORPG.

"

You seem to hate the game. You posts give no sense that you want to be here and that you're actually mad at the devs. I dislike some of their decisions but I still think it's an excellent game. I never get that sense from you.

I hate MMORPGs and PoE Cruel+ doesn't play any different than a MMORPG since OB. PoE Normal is still a good game but I think A3 needs less restriction such as removing sewer keys or only lock the market sewers.

I am mad at the balance devs because they ruined a good ARPG and turned it into a corpse of a game.
And every change towards MMORPGs receives my full antipathy and do you really thing I am the only one who dislikes the changes? There are several other players who think that way but don't post that often.

If the devs would announce their changes they would get extremely negative feedback.
Do you think 60% reservation is any good for Normal/Cruel difficulty and doesn't favour Party play similar to MMORPGs? They would have told the dev to think of another way to fix auras.

"

Relax or play another game dude. You get so defensive and aggressive whenever someone disagrees with you.

I am playing and modding different games.

I post in an agressive tone if somebody doesn't understand the idea.

D2 means Diablo 2 and not Diablo 2 LoD or 1.10+. I am sick of reading "....Enigma....", "....charms..."

A time window is optional and should attract many players and not make some players think. "Hmm I should play 24h bad idea"

Or when I say that the game is so unrewarding that only players grinding their brains out will be in high PVP tiers and then somebody even says "I grinded like a bot and got banned but my character is finished"
You even confirm that the game is too grindy to have a popular PVP community.

You are constantly posting you are lucky to get unbanned.
Other players have less luck.

I think you messed up the quotes..

1. i was never considered as a bot.
2. never had bad mannered traders and rmt experience.
3. if you would level a second character to endgame you can socket already leveled gems to finish them. from ~66 to ~78 the characters gain a lot of xp -> fast gem xp with low maps/ares.

Hillbert what I see is you are a good racer, you only race. You don't have any high level character, don't plan on having high level characters and don't want to trade for high level gear. All I hear is someone screaming for the PVP season to give them the advantage over everyone else. The people who have spent a year gathering gear and leveling up characters into the 90s will be at a disadvantage to someone who has been practicing races and knows the early game inside and out.

These are long rants saying "cutthroat thought be the only form of PVP for PVP season." I can't even entertain this idea anymore. You make it sound like POE is going to just fold if they have normal deathmatches between highly geared players. The real issue is you either have no chance or have to put in a shit load of work you really don't want to.

Do like the rest of us, "I think this would be a cool addition" then move on. Don't make all this grandiose claims that no one will ever play it ever.

"

You don't have any high level character, don't plan on having high level characters and don't want to trade for high level gear.

I got sick of grinding 2 weeks after OB release.

Around the same playtime as my level 84 CB Templar, nerfed chest drop rates, nerfed mapdroprates in merciless. Remember you regret suggesting to nerf droprates to devs in your communication thread?


I did the 1 week Turbo and it has only shown me how much I hate the broken mechanics. Then I got killed by one of the stupid one shot gearcheck bosses because my reduce was low and the boss appeared next to me. The character is already deleted but you can still see him on the 2nd page of the 1 week Turbo.

"

The people who have spent a year gathering gear

Did you lose your feeling for time? The characters can be max 9 months and during that time the game lost the majority of its playerbase twice.

"

leveling up characters into the 90s will be at a disadvantage to someone who has been practicing races and knows the early game inside and out.

Again do you really read my postings or do like playing stupid?
High tier PVPs would give you tons of currency and base items and leveled gems in my idea.
This has nothing do with racing.

"

You make it sound like POE is going to just fold if they have normal deathmatches between highly geared players.

And that will actually happen a scoreboard nothing else.

"

The real issue is you either have no chance or have to put in a shit load of work you really don't want to.

Of course I have no chance in a 100% gearbased PVP and I certainly won't play endgame anymore as long several issues exist.

"

Do like the rest of us, "I think this would be a cool addition" then move on. Don't make all this grandiose claims that no one will ever play it ever.

Only a few players will play gear based PVP this always has been the case.
I play only HC and even after HC PVP was introduced 3 weeks later there were only 5 pvp players left and only 1 of them is still doing PVP.

Jesus, even your short replies you some who make them into a wall of text.

Are we going to fight semantics? I was using the term year more as an estimate. Please tell me the maximum amount of hours someone has been allowed to grind since OB started. Fucking relax, you knew what I meant and you're pointing that out as a "I got ya" small victory. Stfu. Also, wtf do you mean they lost half their player base twice? You're making shit up. There's been more people playing the last week, during weekdays, than their records set in OB. The player base has grown greatly and many people have returned from quitting in OB. Should we really expect people to play non-stop forever or the game isn't successful? When the trend in games now is put out a major title every year, get big sales right away and let it just fade away when the next installment comes out. To me races are boring as fuck, yet they pull a good crowd. If there's participation points giving to the PVP season like races then people will play. It's not like someone who isn't good at PVP will suddenly be top of the ladder even with the step you want to include to make it even.

"

Again do you really read my postings or do like playing stupid?
High tier PVPs would give you tons of currency and base items and leveled gems in my idea.
This has nothing do with racing.

So it would be completely luck base? Unless they are giving me my full 60 pages worth of currency I promise I'm only getting 1-2 good pieces out of it. Someone who hits a 6l in 1 jeweler and 1 fuse, or the guy who got the godly weapon with a single alch will be at a huge advantage. It's no different than merc pvp now except I can use my time to equalize my disadvantage against people's luck. Also not sure how this would work whatsoever. They can only do it for 4 tabs, so you can't get all the gear, every gem leveled and enough currency to roll everything. So you'll end up with limited builds facing each other. In a game that's centered around build diversity this would remove it completely from PVP. "Be as diverse as you'd like, only in PVE though, all competitions are very rigid to make things fair." Booo

"

Of course I have no chance in a 100% gearbased PVP and I certainly won't play endgame anymore as long several issues exist.

Just say you'll never play end game again. I highly doubt they'll fix it so you're happy.

"

Only a few players will play gear based PVP this always has been the case.
I play only HC and even after HC PVP was introduced 3 weeks later there were only 5 pvp players left and only 1 of them is still doing PVP.

For 3 weeks when testing out LLD ideas I was able to get 10-20 matches in daily on EU, my morning time. I don't expect many people in US up for PVP at 7-10am on a weekday so I'd go to EU. Right now, at 11:00pm at night there's someone on my friend's list (firebrand to be exact) putting together 3v3 matches.

People are excited about the PVP ladder and preparing for it. There's multiple PVP guilds and I've run into many people who have been getting ready for PVP in the trading I've done. Either they see my toon with PVP at the end and say they look forward to facing me. Or I tell them the guy I'm currently doing maps with will be for PVP and they joke saying they hope I don't beat them too badly. There's way more interest in this than you are giving credit for. But it doesn't really surprise me because you don't have much community interaction so you are just making assumptions based on how you feel.

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