How PVP based Tournaments should look like not to be an entire failure.

So PVP is pretty much the same as it always was.


If the PVP Tournaments are only level 28 / Open Level PVP on seperate leagues, don't expect a big participation there.

The same level 28 builds as in CB are the strongest ones.
Open End PVP gets reduced to: Who has the most quality linked gems, defense and resists.

Meaning will be grindbased just like everything else. PVP will just turn out to be a failure just other MMORPG PVPs too.

To get PVP Tournaments and seasons working every player must have got the same conditions. For example for level 28 PVP Tourmaments you give a player 24-48h window to reach level 28 and the character will be locked in a "PVP League" similar to the Void leauge and can be used in further PVP Tournaments. In each leveling phase the players can feel free to grind EQ but once they reach level 29 their character drops out. This keeps characters balanced.
The Chest is unavailable because that would also give players creating several characters a huge advantage.

The tournaments will start like Races but you will queue against other players in Act2 and collect points.


Open level PVP requires something similar to descent. You receive a currency item which gives you certain level+skillpoints and a selection of all gems(leveled up) from fixed chests.

Item levels should be the optimal level for the types of PVP. There should be also basetypes low uniques so players can chance them on special builds such as low life, or explosive arrows. All items should roll between 4-6 links to simulate optimized builds.(unless it's a <level 50 pvp).

To be less luck based you should give out several stacks of orbs and the same base items at last twice so players will roll 1 weapon till it's a decent roll and then reroll the next weapon.

Take into account that rolling items can take up to 1h so it might be the best to be allowed to roll the items before the Race starts(you can enter the PVP Arena)
After the league ends the characters can be saved for further tournaments(without getting new currency or they will be moved to a void leaague)


Also Arena PVP is gets boring quiet fast because several gems have no use.

This could easily be changed if leagues open a portal Red and Blue which sends you and an opponent into maps like Dried lake/canyon(with boss position being in the middle)

This kind of Map PVP(around level 1-50) would take mobs into account and a player could let every mob live and crowd them in the middle to kill an opponent.
Detonate Dead and Dominating Blow(only useable against totems which got overnerfed and minions which are too limited) would have a far bigged user than in PVP with like 7-8 shabby random corpses on the floor.
This form of PVP includes enviromental hazards a thing which already should happen in CT but fails due a missing noob protection and players losing everything so only a minority of players still has their EQ at the end of CT races.

Map PVP also offers different kinds of goals such as kill the unique Boss(es) prior to your opponent to receive points or kill your opponent to reduce his score. Or make him die to the boss to receive points.
Maps sizes can be reduced for bossfights.

A goal would be for example 2 players or 2 parties of 3 players fighting each othar at Vaal/Piety/Dominus. And it would offer strategies such as freeze a player outside of Dominus orb or knock him outside of the Safezone so he receives more damage.
Since some boss patterns are known over time high ranked players should receive increased difficulty on PVP such as fighting 2-4 level 12 Brutus or Vaals(Why isn't twinned, triplet, quartuple mapmod not a race type?)
Facing 2-4 Brutus at the same time will make players progress far slower.
Or 2 Vaals would be a nightmare for level 23 players because they have to attack one while the other summons/uses Rockstorm or his lightning attack.

some good ideas here but as always it just re frames who has the advantage. If PvP was like void league then many players with a job would have to work really hard to play around that leagues start and end time. Also instead of gear being time grinding oriented, gear becomes luckily aquired and builds may be hard to put together making it stressful and possibly unsatisfying not being able to complete the barebones build. Very good insight of whats currently going on tho.

Well nothing prevents you from rolling another character.

Characters will be ranked with Wins Draws and Losses.
But if you keep rolling characters till you are satisfied you don't have good amount of matches and won't be ranked high in a Tournament because you have a low amount of matches and you will most likely meet players with a similar amount of matches with the same W-L Ratio because they did the same and rerolled till they were satisfied.



The 24-48h Windows exist to create level 28 character for everybody and have similar equipment.
It it really important that level 28 isn't the max level.
This way players might overlevel doing vaal runs in hope to Find Geofris.

It's only an example window. The window might be smaller as well.
It's only important the events get MANY participants.


Sure I could grab a random 2-3h race character for a HC PVP Tournament but I am certain, that the around 8(estimation of active level 28 HC PVPs) level 28 PVP characters will certainly one shot me with 20% gem combos and max rolled weapons.

I also could a lame ass Beartrap Viperstriker with conversion trap that build will also kill most non Viperstrike Beartrap builds because it is somehow prepared.

What's the point in PVP tournaments if there are for example 500 participants and 450 get butchered because they don't have got good equipment.

The leaderboards will look like that
#1 Player A 500 Matches 497 Wins 3 Draws 0 Losses
#2 Player B 500 Matches 496 Wins 4 Draws 0 Losses
#2 Player C 500 Matches 496 Wins 4 Draws 0 Losses
....
#50 PlayerZ 500 Matches 460 Wins 22 Draws 18 Losses
#51 Player RandomEQexcellentbuild 500 Matches 300 Wins 148 Draws 52 Losses

The high ranked players with PVP eq have 0 Losses because they never met each other and they draws are some players luckily getting away by running in the PVP areas good hiding from flicker Strike and Leap Slam.
The lower ranked equipped players met some equipped players.
And the random junk players all met at last one equipped player and got butchered within 2 minutes.


Players would have got far more fun on a CT mode without dropping items.
Players would have got far more fun if PVP Tournaments would be balanced.

I am a PVP player but PoE is far too grindy to me and other non MMOPRG players will agree.
MMORPG PVP never got popular because they were all 100% EQ based.
He got better stats on items-->He wins.

What were popular D2 PVP modes?
Level 9 Iron Man PVP->Reach level 9 in HC in group then (4 vs 4) (2 vs 2 vs 2 vs 2)Battle Royal Team (2 vs 2 with leaving [Scoreboard] or 3 2 vs 2 matches)

1 vs 1 Knockout rounds
Everybody vs everybody battle Royale.

Such a simple selforganized PVP mode was popular!(One reasoned I suggested to make CTs not going further than ledge.


On the other side Acquiring PVP stuff in D2 was really easy, such as a 6 socket bow with 5-6 perfect emeralds and possibly 1 perfect saphire.
On the second slot a 6 socket bow with 6 perfect skulls.
Popular low level PVP items were Azurewrath, Death Set, Angelic Set, Civerbs weapon, Clegclaws set, Hunters bow, Twitchtoe, that unique 2 hander with cold damage for level 12, throwing spears, gemmed bows and helmets.
Everything could be easily optained and had barely any trade value.

And the D2 Low level PVP community was HUGE.

The high level pvp community worked but there were mostly sorcs spamming frozen orb and some leap attack barbs.


But PoE reduces PVP mainly to 2 builds and other builds can easily be countered and items to counter some builds are the rarest of the game.

PvP tournaments will start shortly, just wait it out and give feedback after you've tasted it.

"

Hilbert wrote:

Popular low level PVP items were Azurewrath, Death Set, Angelic Set, Civerbs weapon, Clegclaws set, Hunters bow, Twitchtoe, that unique 2 hander with cold damage for level 12, throwing spears, gemmed bows and helmets.
Everything could be easily optained and had barely any trade value.

And the D2 Low level PVP community was HUGE.

That also has to do with the agreed upon level. There wasn't much variety for lvl 10 dueling. It was mostly a battle of skill which is why I think 28 here is missing the point. I still think that LLD should be lvl 10-11 here (for no support gems) and then 28 moved up to more of a cruel/midgame dueling max.


With your OP, I don't disagree in this being something additional but I like the idea of people grinding for stuff and crafting a build carefully to do well in PVP. I don't like races and I have awful luck. Last thing I want to deal with is losing constantly because I didn't do well enough because of time or because I couldn't find/craft a decent rare. So, to me, if this was the only PVP ladder options I would lose interest completely. If it's a side thing or another part of the PVP ladder, I might dabble but I don't think I would commit to it.

"

Hilbert wrote:

Open End PVP gets reduced to: Who has the most quality linked gems, defense and resists.

Stopped reading there because its clear you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I should have stopped reading when I saw "Hilbert", but hey we all make mistakes.

your idea would render my build completely unviable cause its impossible to run it if i cant grind out the specific items i need to reach a certain threshold to compete. i guess this would kill off all the niche pvp builds though i have to admit there are not a lot of them in lld.

Great ideas in here. I especially like the idea of a race-PvP hybrid.

I've thought of a variation on it. So it would function much like a race except that the winner is decided by the most PvP victories. Instead of PvPing upon reaching level 28, you could PvP during your PvE progression. Obviously while you PvP you might get behind in PvE. I anticipate this would breed some last minute tension when players who mostly PvE'd are quickly accumulating victories in an effort to catch players who PvP'd as they went along.

It would be important that you can only play each player once (to prevent collusion) and that there are incentives to PvP early on, for example point rewards for the first victory as each class and against each class. Maybe a reward for PvPing at least once per level and for killing someone on a PvP kill streak. It would be good if you can queue for PvP outside of town as well.

"

PvP tournaments will start shortly, just wait it out and give feedback after you've tasted it.

If it's just a scorboard for the small amount of Grind PVPers then it's utterly useless.

"

Stopped reading there because its clear you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I should have stopped reading when I saw "Hilbert", but hey we all make mistakes.

Said the troll who partied with no lifers in a CT race and got killed by me in a 1 on 1 so I received a Demigod. Thanks for the demigod you "elite PVP player".
Cheap attempt to provocate.

"

I like the idea of people grinding for stuff and crafting a build carefully to do well in PVP.

Really? How many Grind PVPers are there?
It's pure Itembased PVP not skill based.
A crit cold caster will always defeat a player not having Dream Fragments or Wanderlust because of Permafreeze.
So you consider yourself a good PVPer if you beat up some players without certain EQ?
You will certainly have fun fighting the same players over and over again because other players got sick of getting one shot by equipped players.

"

I don't like races and I have awful luck. Last thing I want to deal with is losing constantly because I didn't do well enough because of time or because I couldn't find/craft a decent rare.

In my idea you have a 24h window to get get equipment. Of course you can grind Merceil for certain low uniques.
But characters should be balanced. This won't happen if somebody got a 5 or 6 link weapon, cruel gems and optimal quality gems.
There are gems where quality is everything.

"

your idea would render my build completely unviable cause its impossible to run it if i cant grind out the specific items i need to reach a certain threshold to compete. i guess this would kill off all the niche pvp builds though i have to admit there are not a lot of them in lld.

This is intended. It is intended players don't end up getting Crest of Pendarus, Vulnarability, Increased Duration, Conversion Trap and Whirling Blades to run the cheapest level 28 PVP build.

Popular PVP and competive games are skill based that's why they got a big population.
You can't expect to ripoff CTF from shooters and expect it to work out, if nothing else changed.
CTF on shooters work out because players have a limited set of weapons and passives(not all)

D2 low level PVP worked out because you didn't need must time to get a pvp character on par with others.

But PoE? Some desireable PVP uniques are the rarest uniques ingame.
Quality on some gems is far too important. Take Faster Casting for example 10% faster casting on a 20% gem.
Added Cold 10% chance to freeze.

Did the areas even drop some Weapons/Armorparts for Animate Weapon/Guardian? I don't think so.

Do you want competive PVP or do you want like 10 competive players you all know and the rest gets butchered.
Sure it pushes the ego of some low lifes.
PVP must be competive and making certain items extremly rare especially on low level is the wrong way!




@Veta321
This would be pretty much the same as current non restricted CT.The main issue is the big difference in damage and reduced damage.
In a 2h race you level up 1h 30 min randomly kill some lower levels and the last 30 min you kill everybody lower than you.
Score scaling is also difficult because this allows account pushing a common thing done in RTS. It's doable but the amount of time must be set in a way there is a last minute tension.
Longer Race modes are out of question because you see how long CT works out.
PVM players rush forward and bail out of every invasion till they are overleveled
Some players do some pvp and acquire items but they are around 6-10 levels behind and then there are griefers and campers who get level 12 asap and camp all lower level areas to kill low levels.
1 Match up limit prevents score pushing but it also prevents balanced matches somebody outleveling other players and PVPing the last 30 minutes will defeat almost everybody

It might work if certain progression areas will be closed to prevent heavy over leveling and Equipment similar to Lactif and Blamt CT which were the best CTs in terms of PVP but the lethal Turbo mobs were quiet annoying. I would have prefered something like the Ledge Exit sends you to town, similar to the twilight strand exits in CB/OB.

Another way to fix it would be a score systems which would reward you negative scores similar to Teamkilling in shooters if you kill somebody 4 levels or more below you.
This way overleveling will be punished.

"

Hilbert wrote:

"

I like the idea of people grinding for stuff and crafting a build carefully to do well in PVP.

Really? How many Grind PVPers are there?
It's pure Itembased PVP not skill based.
A crit cold caster will always defeat a player not having Dream Fragments or Wanderlust because of Permafreeze.
So you consider yourself a good PVPer if you beat up some players without certain EQ?
You will certainly have fun fighting the same players over and over again because other players got sick of getting one shot by equipped players.

I've spent the last 3-4 weeks farming for LLD and grinding for merc PVP. I don't regret any of it unless I find out last minute that all of that work was for nothing. I actually enjoy MFing when it's for a purpose. I farmed gneiss 12 hours a day for 2 weeks straight in CB trying to get perfect items for my build. I recently spent over a week farming for LLD, grinding so hard GGG's system auto banned me thinking I was a bot. I don't want this taken away. One, because I enjoy it. Two, because I've done the work.

"

"

I don't like races and I have awful luck. Last thing I want to deal with is losing constantly because I didn't do well enough because of time or because I couldn't find/craft a decent rare.

In my idea you have a 24h window to get get equipment. Of course you can grind Merceil for certain low uniques.
But characters should be balanced. This won't happen if somebody got a 5 or 6 link weapon, cruel gems and optimal quality gems.
There are gems where quality is everything.

If there's a 24 hour window, that means the minimum amount of time someone needs to invest would be 24 hours. Do you think people enjoy putting in 20 hours or more a day during week races? If you want to be at the top you have to go crazy. These battles of who can play the most without bathroom breaks is not my thing. I'm a smoker, every hour regardless of the race, I'm going to smoke. Suddenly the best I can hope for is 10-15% lower ranking than previously because I'm not doing 24 hours straight.

Again, if it's in addition to a normal PVP ladder, sweet. But if PVP is like races to fuck that. Basically your ideas boil down to more polished cutthroat leagues and that's not enjoyable to me. I want to craft a non-cookie cutter build. I want to be unique and I want to limit someone's RNG luck over my terrible luck.