Provisioning Wombgifts

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Let me guess.
You witnessed a one-in-I-don’t-know-how-many outcome where someone landed a fairly strong fractured mod alongside three other solid mods, and now you are thinking, “Sick, that is insane.”

No, I've made more than two mirrors selling items from the tree this league - consistently from the moment I reached maps (or at least a semi-spec'd out Genesis tree). Axes, body armors and boots have all sold like butter throughout the league. I don't base my opinions on others, but when 'most' people (excluding you) seem to have the same impression as me, it quickly adds up.

The tree SPITS(!) out 30% MS, triple res boots - often included chaos res. Essences? Come on, dude. The tree is very generous with high pDPS axes. Essences? Come on...

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But it is far from as overpowered as you seem to believe.

I haven't used the word "overpowered" once. The items aren't overpowered in the grand scheme of things. But they are too easy to obtain - way too early - by the click of a button - which removes 90% of item progression until you REALLY start min/maxing your build.

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or a few clicks of Essence

I give up... You do you, this is just ragebaiting at this point. Have a nice evening.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

No, I've made more than two mirrors selling items from the tree this league - consistently from the moment I reached maps (or at least a semi-spec'd out Genesis tree). Axes, body armors and boots have all sold like butter throughout the league. I don't base my opinions on others, but when 'most' people (excluding you) seem to have the same impression as me, it quickly adds up.

It’s commendable if you have made more than two mirrors this league, yet one has to wonder, wouldn’t that amount of currency have been sufficient to acquire nearly perfect gear, or at least a single mirror-tier item, rather than just a collection of very generic, basic pieces? I am also curious to know who exactly constitutes “the most,” since all we see are a handful of forum posts. The broader spectrum of what could be considered “most” remains hidden, and in reality, the majority of players do not actively contribute to discussions regarding whether the tree is strong or weak.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

The tree SPITS(!) out 30% MS, triple res boots - often included chaos res. Essences? Come on, dude. The tree is very generous with high pDPS axes. Essences? Come on...

Just to clarify, is this your first league in which you have encountered the items you describe?
Even before Keepers, this was not particularly high-end or crazy gear and was quite accessible as early endgame equipment, whether by purchasing inexpensive items from trade league or assembling something serviceable with a few essences. If I were to speculate, it seems crafting was not a significant part of your experience until now, even though the tree itself cannot truly be classified as crafting.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

I haven't used the word "overpowered" once. The items aren't overpowered in the grand scheme of things. But they are too easy to obtain - way too early - by the click of a button - which removes 90% of item progression until you REALLY start min/maxing your build.

Are these items truly that easy to obtain, or are they simply as accessible as other methods such as rog, ships, or basic generic essence crafting? The gear in question is hardly extraordinary and will not disrupt progression, as meaningful advancement only becomes relevant in the very endgame, where character optimization truly matters.

The rest of the game, from the start through early endgame, is already relatively trivial, regardless of whether one acquires their first starter pieces or temporary band-aid fixes through rog, ships, trade, modest crafting, or even salvaging low-quality gear from the ground. The Genesis Tree merely provides an additional way to customize your experience, yet it does not surpass the other established methods for preparing and progressing toward the endgame.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

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or a few clicks of Essence

I give up... You do you, this is just ragebaiting at this point. Have a nice evening.

Thank you for clarifying that crafting is a new experience for you.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

It’s commendable if you have made more than two mirrors this league, yet one has to wonder, wouldn’t that amount of currency have been sufficient to acquire nearly perfect gear, or at least a single mirror-tier item, rather than just a collection of very generic, basic pieces?

When you have a league filled with walls and no (new) endgame elements in terms of gameplay, the motivation to really "push on" isn't there. Blasting T17's was enough for me this league. Very basic is enough for that. I pushed 3 characters to T17's in the worst league I've played since Kalandra league.

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Just to clarify, is this your first league in which you have encountered the items you describe?

Not at all. But it's the first league I ever played where items like these were "printable" without effort, knowledge or investment - as early as they were.

YOU keep calling this "high end", I do not - I just call them too good for how easy they are to obtain without any form of game knowledge or effort.

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Are these items truly that easy to obtain

Yes. Did you play the league and interact with the Genesis tree at all as you have to ask?

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The rest of the game, from the start through early endgame, is already relatively trivial

I agree. That's no reason to make it even more so, and remove every form of item progression or the need of crafting/trading.

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Thank you for clarifying that crafting is a new experience for you.

No, that's what you are doing, making 35% MS, triple res (including chaos) boots with "a few essences". You've probably never done this using only essences, let alone on a non-fractured base.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

Not at all. But it's the first league I ever played where items like these were "printable" without effort, knowledge or investment - as early as they were.

So, basically, it’s too powerful because this is your first real crafting league? Consider Necropolis.
That league happened not too long ago and it was far worse, requiring just as little knowledge or effort to end up with outright busted and broken resorts with minimal gambling involved.

You did not even have to engage with mapping; you could spend all day profit crafting without entering a single map. Tedious, certainly, but it was a clear example of an item printer, much like the old Harvest league used to be.

By comparison, this league hardly qualifies as an item printer. We are mostly talking about mediocre mid-tier gear, nothing particularly remarkable or game-changing.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

YOU keep calling this "high end", I do not - I just call them too good for how easy they are to obtain without any form of game knowledge or effort.

Even if we’re calling them “too good” by your standards, they are no better than the other established low-investment, low-effort strategies. Clicking a few essences is hardly demanding.
Running a few low-map expeditions to hit Rog is equally simple, as it closely mirrors the process with the tree: acquire the Womb item, attach it to the tree, and hope for something usable.
Similarly, sending out ships to target gear can yield serviceable items that bridge the gap between early endgame and full endgame, especially if you’re not inclined to go on an outright shopping spree after a bit of basic farming.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

Yes. Did you play the league and interact with the Genesis tree at all as you have to ask?

Yes, and the results were not particularly impressive, especially considering this is a crafting-focused league, or as close to crafting as one can get. It is hard to say whether past leagues simply spoiled us with excessive power, or if GGG finally struck the right balance, designing a crafting system that complements the existing mechanics while targeting the early to mid-game as an additional layer. Or perhaps it was just a matter of poor balancing, and it was intended to be as powerful as Necropolis. We may never truly know what was going on in GGG’s mind.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

No, that's what you are doing, making 35% MS, triple res (including chaos) boots with "a few essences". You've probably never done this using only essences, let alone on a non-fractured base.

I play exclusively in SSF, so I am very familiar with the crafting system, as it is my only source of gearing. I do not have the shortcut of trading.
When I occasionally join trade leagues at the urging of friends for some group antics, the experience looks quite different.

What you can craft with a few essences quickly turns into a short shopping spree without breaking the bank, since the items you call “too good” are hardly extraordinary or expensive.
Triple resistance boots with movement speed are hardly remarkable. They make a solid stat stick if needed, but there are far more complex items that are much harder to craft.

It seems obvious to craft on a fractured base, so it is unclear who would pursue this in a fully rational mindset. If you do not craft on an unfractured base, you are likely aiming for double-influenced boots, in which case triple resistance is not an option. If you genuinely need triple resistance boots because other slots cannot cover the resistances, you are already at the stage of min-maxing where every affix matters.

At that point, you can easily afford to obtain triple resistance boots with movement speed for a few chaos, or a div, or craft on a fractured base and apply a few essences to achieve your desired outcome.
This is possible as soon as early endgame, once you begin optimizing, or at the point where the passive tree might produce the named boots you mentioned.

Most players prioritize avoidance boots, spell suppression with life or energy shield, or perhaps attributes for early damage pushes via attribute stacking.

Those are far less likely to be produced by the tree than you suggest. In particular, the ailment avoidance mod is an exclusive essence mods and cannot be forced by the tree. The tree generally yields very generic items, and triple resistance are quite basic.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

[...]
By comparison, this league hardly qualifies as an item printer. We are mostly talking about mediocre mid-tier gear, nothing particularly remarkable or game-changing.[...]


[...]Most players prioritize avoidance boots, spell suppression with life or energy shield, or perhaps attributes for early damage pushes via attribute stacking.

Those are far less likely to be produced by the tree than you suggest. In particular, the ailment avoidance mod is an exclusive essence mods and cannot be forced by the tree. The tree generally yields very generic items, and triple resistance are quite basic.

I have to agree here. It is more like an comfy midgame item printer with some exceptions maybe. High defensive value body armour maybe better than Dense Fossils i dunno, haven't tried this league and used Dense on former leagues. The tree also produces maybe a t1 weapon base, a caster wand maybe sooner or later, but not the actual item you are going to use.

For hybrid bases with fractured spell suppress the tree probably doesn't offer any specific advantages. And you kind of need those in a lot of cases, since suppress rolls are so rare on hybrid bases. But if you want high ES gloves the tree is maybe really good...

I think there is plenty of value in trade league still and the few things the tree made obsolete are ok comapred to the huge advantage it gives for early to midgame SSF. Rip Rog, hehe

I'm gonna stick my oar in and say the tree is OP I don't know why anyone would think differently, it basically invalidated all gear up to a very high threshold.

Trying to suggest you can get similar results with essences is extremely disingenuous. I'd go actually look at the odds of hitting certain items that the tree printed with essences you'll find its 1/100000 fairly often.

Rog was comparable, but also more work for less items and a tiny bit higher maximum outcome. Settlers boat also comparable but you received less items and had nowhere near as much control over the outcome just "high tier mods".

Tree made it irrelevant to pick anything on the ground up at any point from when it was actually active. You don't find natural triple T1 armour + PDR + Chaos res armours on the floor that'd be similar odds to getting a natural mirror.

No it didn't make the best gear and there were a variety of items it just couldn't produce depending on their mod tags usually but it was an enormous power spike and gave you enough to do all the content, your only missing out on the pissing about power that a few players focus on when everything else is done.

edit: GGG will know this i'm expecting it to be gutted, probably by provisioning wombgifts themselves being extremely rare or the juice requirement being drastically increased. They may have done the GGG triple tap though.

Tree also seems to be bugged (?) in early game in that it can seemingly drop 6 socket items at ilvl less than 50 (25 is lowest I saw so far), something that is only possible with an expensive late maps bench craft ?

(Not that it would matter much outside of SSF Keepers ?)

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Draegnarrr#2823 wrote:

...with essences you'll find its 1/100000 fairly often.

You're clearly wrong. It has been firmly stated that it's "a few" essences.

Jokes aside, I have a quad tab filled with items from the Genesis tree that would've sold for several divines pre-Keepers. It CLEARLY outshines all other "crafting" alternatives from Act 2 all the way up until you're pushing T17's. I would go as far as to say that people claiming that the tree isn't better than the alternatives for 'most' of the game haven't really interacted with the tree at all, at least not correctly.

There's no winning no matter what they do with the tree.

They nerf it too much and nobody will ever run breach in trade league cus wombgifts will be worth nothing, and you can just buy any foulborn unique off asynch so why bother, everyone will block Breach.

They leave it too strong and people will complain its giving too many rewards just like Kingsmarch shipping.

The best thing I got out of the tree was some random t1 fractured bone ring with a minion mod that sold for 8 divs and 6-links, that's it. All the other time provisioning wombgifts didn't really give me anything amazing even fully specced into stuff I wanted. And I never got divs from the currency one or any rare unique from the unique ones.


I think its a good thing for the breach tree to print good items though, that makes all the items cheaper for everyone which makes gearing easier, so the game is more fun. I don't craft and I never will, too complicated for me. So I'm happy they put in a mechanic like this Tree that just gives me ready-to-use amazing items. Just like how I can farm some gold and send ships for divines in Kingsmarch. These kinds of mechanics are great for casuals like me.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

They nerf it too much and nobody will ever run breach in trade league cus wombgifts will be worth nothing, and you can just buy any foulborn unique off asynch so why bother, everyone will block Breach.

Sounds like a "win" to me.

And it would probably also be a win for the 14 people that decide to farm foulborn uniques all league.