we need aspirational endgame in 3.28 otherwise game is doomed

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Strickl3r#3809 wrote:

better than any alternative kind of deal
meta reshuffle

yeah, indeed very nice meta reshuffle and nice list of juicing alternatives! with bloodline scarab for blight which was buffed only during like 3rd week of keepers when the league was already dead and everybody already left, and still magic blight is not very aspirational... and can be done by a large number of mappers like HOWA reave/ls, kboc, etc

wdymm there are only OP builds for juiced content? in affliction meta was formed by:
1) TS / scourge arrow of malice bows (giga expensive builds mostly for legions and not that great for abysses when you are solo)
2) poison caustic pf
3) cws
4) billions of BV iterations from assassin/occultist/inq to poison or chieftain one
5) billions of builds which are better if you play duo/full party like spark or EK and which are scalable solo but with extremely good gear

and these were only the top meta strongest builds. in mercenaries (x2-3 loot from what we had in affliction) we had various KBs, str stack, BVs, PBoD, etc... I think that GGG should buff underperforming builds to the level of what I listed above, not destroy playable skills so we are forced to play "impale cleave".

the challenge ppl want is to juice content and upgrade their build (basically this is the meaning of ARPG genre), playing dead underperforming skill forgotten by GGG is not a challenge, its poe2/ruthless playerbase mentality. obviously not healthy

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

then try and scale something that isnt so EASY to scale

you are probably one of people who said that TS was too op and we need to nerf it? fubgun's viewers popular paste. I won't even mention the fact that TFT gifted fubgun mirrored bow and quiver so he can show his skill playing TS xddd

so, GGG basically deleted TS from the game, this skill is now non-existent and on one level of power with raise zombies/arakali fang/any other forgotten and unscalable build with 0 dps

and you know what happened brother? bows are now weak and barely playable xddd
lets repeat nerf fiesta and do TS treatment to all other archetypes. LETS DELETE PLAYABLE ABILITIES AND NOT TOUCH BAD ONES. ITS SUCH A GOOD IDEA PROOVED BY PREVIOUS LEAGUES BRO!!!!!

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

so, GGG basically deleted TS from the game, this skill is now non-existent and on one level of power with raise zombies/arakali fang/any other forgotten and unscalable build with 0 dps

and you know what happened brother? bows are now weak and barely playable xddd
lets repeat nerf fiesta and do TS treatment to all other archetypes. LETS DELETE PLAYABLE ABILITIES AND NOT TOUCH BAD ONES. ITS SUCH A GOOD IDEA PROOVED BY PREVIOUS LEAGUES BRO!!!!!

TS dodged so many nerfs it was not even funny. Even i played that skill twice and i almost never play a skill twice and i hate bow builds XD

And according to several yt vids LA is still on the menu for bow andys. Bows don't suck because they are not the optimum in t17 speedfarming meta or whatever, lol.
LA seems like a good build to clear the entire game with, don't see the issue.

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Strickl3r#3809 wrote:

And according to several yt vids LA is still on the menu for bow andys. Bows don't suck because they are not the optimum in t17 speedfarming meta or whatever, lol.
LA seems like a good build to clear the entire game with, don't see the issue.

I mean TS required giga gear to perform well. at least +proj quiver and phys bow. Otherwise (in affliction for example) scourge arrow was better, in starting gear with ele bow it had like x3-4 of TS damage, better clear and same single target

the worst part about LA is its single target lack of damage and any way of scaling it. with KB/KBoC we at least have ice wall shenanigans/thicc mobs who stay near walls like generals in 5way for instance. bows do not have the same alternative

ele hit and la have great clear but lack damage. TS and scourge were the perfect bow abilities and as for me, GGG should have brought other hit bow abilities like ice shot, etc to their level. or even make TS a support gem with big "deal less damage" but your projectiles work like TS'

if most content is doable by any build, but SOME builds are just outright better and have like 10 times more potential then there are two ways:

- change the entire game to appease the few selected builds
- nerf the them to 'regular' level

you want the first one, because you play this and only this, so you do not give a slightest f.. about anything else - it is your loot explosion that matters


i want the second one, because POE is a build freedom, solving the puzzle and playing different things

both are fine motivations. problem is, that implementing the first one means you just outright delete all build options and playstyles that cannot pass the new, elevated bar.

and that is a suicide design decision

and yeah, if you are so good at this game that you need next level of challenge - do not 'cheat' playing auto-win setup, pick something that is actually challenging. otherwise it is like complaining about no difficulty while playing with god-mode

i havent heard complaints about 'juicing' that didnt come from people playing the meta-st builds of given time.

if powercreep is so overarching:

cleave, physical - go
poison arrow - go
conflagration - go
charged dash - go
fireball - go

no energy blade, no int stacking

i wanna see these builds do invi-blight

if you cannot - then there is plenty of challenge left in the game. and int stackers (there are few more, but nothing warps the game around itself as int stacking does) needs to simply die

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

- change the entire game to appease the few selected builds
- nerf the them to 'regular' level

go play poe2 bro, this game was made specially for you... oh. i forgot that in "the vision 2" which was supposed to be souls-like arpg for impale cleave enjoyers 80% of ppl in endgame play COC comet xddddd
yeah we need souls like arpg!!!! NERF EVERYTHING TO THE GROUND SO PEOPLE GONNA HAVE FUN PLAYING CLEAVE AND RAISE ZOMBIES

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Strickl3r#3809 wrote:

Bows don't suck because they are not the optimum in t17 speedfarming meta or whatever, lol.
LA seems like a good build to clear the entire game with, don't see the issue.

Cause nothing has really changed. Bow builds are still just as good as they were a few leagues ago during their high peak popularity. They still perform amazing. The only thing that changed is that popularity shifted to other skills and archetypes, and somehow people confuse “not popular” with “not playable.”

You can still throw on TS, LA, Ice Shot, or whatever other bow skill and go from zero to hero perfectly fine. Even TS after the nerf is still totally viable if you actually want to play it. It didn’t fall off a cliff entirely, it just stopped being the main character and main focus for the streamer crowd.

The whole popularity mindset and streamer clickbait stuff is just cooked. People see less hype and assume the bow archetype is dead.

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

i want the second one, because POE is a build freedom, solving the puzzle and playing different things

Correct, and I’m sure you’ll eventually solve the puzzle and realize that Int stackers are not actually the main problem of the game. Most everything else is quietly carried along by the steady march of power creep.

So yes, if we nerf one archetype, power creep will continue its subtle ascent. If we nerf everything, player power is tempered across the board, sometimes even where it’s actually needed. If we do neither and simply introduce new content, it will eventually rise to match the current power level, making that content feel genuinely aspirational rather than a trivialized joke at the expense of unchecked power creep.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

can still throw on TS, LA, Ice Shot, or whatever other bow skill and go from zero to hero perfectly fine. Even TS after the nerf is still totally viable if you actually want to play it. It didn’t fall off a cliff entirely, it just stopped being the main character and main focus for the streamer crowd.

kill t17 boss on juiced map with TS/ice shot/LA without 20 mirrors gear and make a video. i can give you a link to snoobae's (forgive me God) video where he is unable to kill sanctuary boss with multimirror post-nerf TS

barrage/snipe were designed to be bows' single-target way to go (especially taking in account that bows have two 6-links avaliable). but both are useless utter garbage

have you even played post- of pre-nerf TS? I played it post nerf in necropolis and can say that this skill is literally deleted from poe

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

if powercreep is so overarching:
fireball - go

Played fireball 2 leagues ago, and it was quite fun and easy.
It's easier than ever to pick up a random ability and mash together a solid build, all thanks to power creep. lol

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Cause nothing has really changed. Bow builds are still just as good as they were a few leagues ago during their high peak popularity

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

kill t17 boss on juiced map with TS/ice shot/LA without 20 mirrors gear and make a video.

I agree with what VoidWhisperer said.
It's not necessarily hard, even less so after the nerf of t17 maps.
I've done a couple of juiced t17s during Necropolis with a bow build on a shoestring budget.
120d isn't exactly close to 20 mirror gear but the build did it's job just fine despite the extra lantern juice.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

It's not necessarily hard, even less so after the nerf of t17 maps.
I've done a couple of juiced t17s during Necropolis with a bow build on a shoestring budget.
120d isn't exactly close to 20 mirror gear but the build did it's job despite the extra lantern juice.

what was your build? i mean fortress punching bag immobilised by deli and without stacked def mods + only 1 orb is OK, otherwise...
I'm not omega bow enjoyer, played them twice in affliction and necro (and in necro insta speced into CWS xddd) so no negative/sarcasm, just interested