Why T18 Maps Are Necessary for the Future of Endgame PoE

Yeah suppression is so unnecessary that ben stacks it on top of max resists for the uber kill event in same league where devs decide to nerf it by 20%.

Yeah apparently I am observing an alternate reality version of the game.

Apparently what makes the game feel to me like a lesser parody of itself after each update is in fact a good thing.

What you guys ask for is no different than greater rifts in d3, only rolled out slower.

Interesting aspiration for a beloved game.

Z3RoNightMare#7140 explained it well, I tried too, but its all "debunked" and "nonsense" to you.

You don't want a discussion, you have reached your conclusions long before this thread begun and you dont want them to be challenged. You want an echo chamber.

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

Yeah suppression is so unnecessary that ben stacks it on top of max resists for the uber kill event in same league where devs decide to nerf it by 20%.

Yeah apparently I am observing an alternate reality version of the game.

A shallow attempt to re-characterize what you said, and spread misinformation.

No one ever said it wasn't a POWERFUL defensive option. Ben recognizes this and uses it because of that.

The difference here is that it isn't MANDATORY. There is nothing MANDATORY, no matter how many times you try to explain yourself out of your own misinformation.


You ARE observing an alternate reality within the game, and even within your own posts.



Greater Rifts were actually a decent design idea: it was the REST of D3 that was a problem. The itemization, the characterization, the skills, the feel, even a GOOD design like endless difficulty scaling couldn't rescue that.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Thankfully the game is going in the correct direction, they nerfed T17s real good this patch and made the quant/rarity bonuses about on par with T16, as it should be.

The nerfs certainly were warranted in terms of raw drops through stacking modifiers. The game was also made a whole lot easier in the endgame with the removal of a lot of map modifier effect from atlas passives, which also is a good thing for "casual" gamers. They are still way above T16 and T16.5 maps though.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Hopefully in 3.28 they completely rework those maps to what they should have always been: a way to get access to uber bosses,nothing more nothing less. There will be no t18 maps, because Valdo maps already exist as the ultimate test for a build.

Doubtful about statement 1. There's no indication that's where they're headed at all. You have been told time and time again that Valdo maps exist outside the regular mapping loop and they're just T17 maps with unique mod pools. Valdo maps existing does not mean they won't expand on existing endgame systems at all and you'd be a fool to think otherwise

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And if players are getting too OP then the only thing to do is nerf the top-end,nerf OP crafting methods,nerf most popular builds,and maybe delete recombinator too so people can't just item-edit their way to perfect t1 items. That is how you reign in powercreep.

Icespear Totem Hierophant removed from the game as it is the most optimized, bestest build ever.

Jokes aside, they already address outliers. I'd be interested to hear what OP crafting methods I have been missing out on though, care to enlighten me?

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

3.27 was a great league because the economy was stable and healthy af, divs were only like 130c at most because there were no blatant exploits and scarab bugs for people to abuse and T17 maps got nerfed so that also helped. Finally a league where a divine isn't 200 chaos lmao

That's mostly due to lower currency drop rates as the league mechanic wasn't an overtuned mess to the likes of Affliction league

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

So yeah,as a casual player I can't wait to see more T17 reworks in the future. Those maps were a mistake, and I'm glad to see the game finally turning around and fixing it.

You hardly count as a casual player considering you admit to playing for 16 hours a day. They are also not "turning around" on T17 maps they adjusted them to be more in line with what they think they should yield in terms of drops. If anything, that is them endorsing and reinforcing their stance on them being in their rightful place: at the top of the progression ladder, where they will remain.

T18, and Uber^3 bosses after that. All of that purely optional, not mandatory, exclusively aspirational content, which, by pure coincidence, drops couple of "100% more damage for an archetype" uniques. But hey, you can still drop MAGEBLOOD in T8!

Been there. Bad approach, but looks like it's the way of the future.

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Zagzuatl#6861 wrote:

T18, and Uber^3 bosses after that. All of that purely optional, not mandatory, exclusively aspirational content, which, by pure coincidence, drops couple of "100% more damage for an archetype" uniques. But hey, you can still drop MAGEBLOOD in T8!

Been there. Bad approach, but looks like it's the way of the future.

which you could just buy, just like with any reward from any uber boss, because they are not exclusive to whomever dropped them

and I'm baccckkkk.


-1 for T18.

Just un-nerf T17 modifier values.

Here's what the game needs.

Buff loot globally 500% on every table.
Removing T17s, as they are a bad design with those layouts and allowing for the old system with rollable invitations could also work, instead of playing white ubers.

Buff skill tree damage 15% more.

Buff life on the tree by 20%. In addition add 10% less elemental damage taken to all life builds to compensate for the insane chaos dmg boost the monsters got and turned CI the only real way to play the endgame.

Buff armour on the left side of the tree, or allow it to mitigate more physical dmg at lower numbers.

Lower down the attribute requirements for gear.

Additionally, Ignore those forum warriors- white knights that bring up the increased player power as a problem, even commenting about it based on Keepers (lol). Mercenaries and Affliction gave insane power to players and they are in the hall of fame of the most played and most loved leagues. Keepers hit barrel bottom, only the QOL keep them going, and, of course, mid progression or late game "crafting" roulette can't be called player power.

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panikouk#7916 wrote:

Here's what the game needs.

Buff loot globally 500% on every table.
Removing T17s, as they are a bad design with those layouts and allowing for the old system with rollable invitations could also work, instead of playing white ubers.

Buff skill tree damage 15% more.

Buff life on the tree by 20%. In addition add 10% less elemental damage taken to all life builds to compensate for the insane chaos dmg boost the monsters got and turned CI the only real way to play the endgame.

Buff armour on the left side of the tree, or allow it to mitigate more physical dmg at lower numbers.

Lower down the attribute requirements for gear.

Additionally, Ignore those forum warriors- white knights that bring up the increased player power as a problem, even commenting about it based on Keepers (lol). Mercenaries and Affliction gave insane power to players and they are in the hall of fame of the most played and most loved leagues. Keepers hit barrel bottom, only the QOL keep them going, and, of course, mid progression or late game "crafting" roulette can't be called player power.

This is almost word for word what I would post, but I'd be doing it sarcastically.

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And if players are getting too OP then the only thing to do is nerf the top-end,nerf OP crafting methods,nerf most popular builds,and maybe delete recombinator too so people can't just item-edit their way to perfect t1 items. That is how you reign in powercreep.

Icespear Totem Hierophant removed from the game as it is the most optimized, bestest build ever.

True, if we are so concerned about the top end, this would be the perfect time to nuke that one perfect overpowered build that can do everything in the game, including killing Uber Exarch in three seconds. It would be a good start to addressing outliers, as such an unethical level of strength clearly should not exist.
I think it would be best if they give spell totems the melee totem treatment and nuke them from the game entirely, just for good measurement while thoroughly addressing the problem of the perfect other outliers.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And if players are getting too OP then the only thing to do is nerf the top-end,nerf OP crafting methods,nerf most popular builds,and maybe delete recombinator too so people can't just item-edit their way to perfect t1 items. That is how you reign in powercreep.

Icespear Totem Hierophant removed from the game as it is the most optimized, bestest build ever.

True, if we are so concerned about the top end, this would be the perfect time to nuke that one perfect overpowered build that can do everything in the game, including killing Uber Exarch in three seconds.

Except that's not happening lmao

The last time anything changed with my build was when they did the big gem patch and made quality on Ice Spear give crit multi instead of proj speed, which was a giga-buff for me. And the most recent hiero changes were targeted at Ice Nova Archmage builds which were OP af with huge tankiness and damage and clear, so it didn't affect me at all because I literally don't click those notables. I'm gonna keep playing this build every league and have a blast with it. It has no defenses, that's the trade-off. Perfectly balanced. I also use a scuffed jewel setup and 20+ tattoos just to fix res and get curse immunity, and stack attributes just to equip all my gems. Its like 5 layers of balancing acts all to play a random glass cannon build made of paper kek,meanwhile other builds can slap on a headhunter/mageblood and faceroll the whole game.

Now what they will nerf is builds overperforming in gauntlet events(especially if everyone plays the same build),OP meta builds like the funny Ephemeral Edge mageblood splitting steel one that got deleted recently. Int stackers are next.


Back on topic though, T17s need to be turned into white non-modifiable maps that drop uber boss fragments, or straight up deleted. T16 should be the best thing, period the end. Otherwise its a neverending spiral, we might aswell add infinitely scaling endgame like Greater Rifts from Diablo.