GGG, please reconsider Risk Scarab limit

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

That logic is flawed for Path of Exile. There is no different versions of Headhunter belts, neither is there another shield like Svalinn and its lucky blocks. The only T0 that works is Mageblood, but that's more comparing a lamborghini to a rusty chevrolet.

Not really though......

If scarabs are used to juice content, in order to find more t0 uniques...then MORE t0 uniques are going into the market and the supply/demand ratio changes making their "value" lower.

If part of the value of the lamborghini comes from its limited amount...then adding MORE of them to the market will lower their price. That is economics.

And if the price of those t0 uniques are lower, but within reach for SOME players...then any belt that is of a lower tier becomes less valuable to those players to both buy and sell.......which in turn lowers THEIR sale price for the people below to buy.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

That logic is flawed for Path of Exile. There is no different versions of Headhunter belts, neither is there another shield like Svalinn and its lucky blocks. The only T0 that works is Mageblood, but that's more comparing a lamborghini to a rusty chevrolet.

Not really though......

If scarabs are used to juice content, in order to find more t0 uniques...then MORE t0 uniques are going into the market and the supply/demand ratio changes making their "value" lower.

If part of the value of the lamborghini comes from its limited amount...then adding MORE of them to the market will lower their price. That is economics.

Best example of this being the recent CS2 patch that made the market on high price knife skins plummet into the abyss.

Turns out adding more of a scarce resource actually lowers the price, who would'a thunk

car example is flawed:

- if other car makers make their 'cheap' cars unreasonably expensive, new entity can enter the market and offer similar product for cheap. cars are not commodity, you buy it infrequently - so if that cheaper car gets bought, one more expensive doesnt. so all makers have the incentive to keep their prices reasonable in this segment. market collusions are rare and competition extremely brutal so if you go for a low-end car, you are sure you are not overpaying (service and parts is where youll get robbed)
- cars at the same time cannot be 'cheaper than' due to raw material costs, licensing, regulations and stuff. so there is no option to buy a modern family sedan for 500 euros, the Alu used for the frame alone costs more (unless goverments use subsidies but that is too deep for me)
- high end prices of cars are nothing but a pissing contests and selling people 'good feels', just like luxury handbags and clothing coming from the same sewing companies in Far East as your 5euro tshirts. the sticker and 'aspiration' drives that part of the market (just like various 'foils' drive prices in POE, however to far less degree)

in short - car example is cool but bares no relation to topic at hand

of course at the same time as all that trickle-down is happening, inflation is ALSO happening.

Inflation generally happens worst when the game itself is shitting out too much currency for the LOWER END of the playerbase.

When the low (or really the middle) end has too much to spend, things get pricier within that tier because more players are willing to spend at higher rates. Savvy marketeers will notice this and take advantage of it.

"

sidtherat#1310 wrote:

car example is flawed:

- if other car makers make their 'cheap' cars unreasonably expensive, new entity can enter the market and offer similar product for cheap. cars are not commodity, you buy it infrequently - so if that cheaper car gets bought, one more expensive doesnt. so all makers have the incentive to keep their prices reasonable in this segment. market collusions are rare and competition extremely brutal so if you go for a low-end car, you are sure you are not overpaying (service and parts is where youll get robbed)
- cars at the same time cannot be 'cheaper than' due to raw material costs, licensing, regulations and stuff. so there is no option to buy a modern family sedan for 500 euros, the Alu used for the frame alone costs more (unless goverments use subsidies but that is too deep for me)
- high end prices of cars are nothing but a pissing contests and selling people 'good feels', just like luxury handbags and clothing coming from the same sewing companies in Far East as your 5euro tshirts. the sticker and 'aspiration' drives that part of the market (just like various 'foils' drive prices in POE, however to far less degree)

in short - car example is cool but bares no relation to topic at hand

That is only true for run-of-the-mill cars where exclusivity and scarcity don't matter. cowmoo was talking about luxury cars which don't follow the same rules. By definition, luxury is not a commodity, because they are not essential. You don't buy a lambo considering cargo space for grocery shopping

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

car example is flawed:

- if other car makers make their 'cheap' cars unreasonably expensive, new entity can enter the market and offer similar product for cheap. cars are not commodity, you buy it infrequently - so if that cheaper car gets bought, one more expensive doesnt. so all makers have the incentive to keep their prices reasonable in this segment. market collusions are rare and competition extremely brutal so if you go for a low-end car, you are sure you are not overpaying (service and parts is where youll get robbed)
- cars at the same time cannot be 'cheaper than' due to raw material costs, licensing, regulations and stuff. so there is no option to buy a modern family sedan for 500 euros, the Alu used for the frame alone costs more (unless goverments use subsidies but that is too deep for me)
- high end prices of cars are nothing but a pissing contests and selling people 'good feels', just like luxury handbags and clothing coming from the same sewing companies in Far East as your 5euro tshirts. the sticker and 'aspiration' drives that part of the market (just like various 'foils' drive prices in POE, however to far less degree)

in short - car example is cool but bares no relation to topic at hand

It absolutely has relation. But the things you list here are exactly why I wrote in my example that there are "more restrictions" on the car example than those which exist in PoE.

You also "assume" that things like lamborghinis cost 10x more to make than a lower-tier car.....which is wrong. The MARKUP on value is far more related to the item rarity than anything else. Both in terms of the brand name, the style, and the aesthetic. But the actual cost of parts, while it plays a role, is far less of a role than you make it out to be.


And again.....you are significantly short-sighting it. Not understanding the mechanics. Plus, once again, you back yourself into a corner and even contradict yourself a full 180 degrees in this post.....but just stop before the understanding settles in, as if that makes it right.

"High end pricing has to do with materials cost"
"....High end pricing is nothing more than a pissing contest and showing off"
lol


*hint: BOTH are true, to a degree, also in PoE. BUT that doesn't change the fact that BECAUSE both are true it has a significant effect on everything OUTSIDE of this tier.

Reasons WHY high-end cars exist as status symbols:
1) Cheaper versions exist
2) They do things others don't
3) They are rare
4) They are expensive for the sake of being expensive

Numbers 1, 2, AND 3 all have strong roles across the ENTIRE economy structure around car sales (an by extension, high end items vs. lower end items in poe). It's economic competition, in its most basic form.

While its true that a "base" car has a "crafting cost" (omg, same in PoE!!!!)...that is *almost* irrelevant to how its value is perceived by the market. A mirror item basically NEVER costs "a mirror of currency" to craft. And its actual value and worth as a mirror item depends on how desirable it truly is to the masses. A less desirable item, despite having a similar manufacturing cost, will be SOLD for less currency. Similarly, as the mirror market saturates with copied items that serve the same purpose, their value ultimately lowers thanks to competition.

I honestly can't believe that this is a real argument on the PoE market.

1) That high end players hoard their items and/or only sell them to other high end players exclusively

and

2) Having more items in the market doesn't lower the cost of those items for everyone


These two points that are being attempted here make absolutely no sense. Literally any player that has EVER run juiced content of any level and uses trade could tell you these two things are ridiculous.

i did

and to put it short:

- i reached a point where NOTHING i had for sale was in price-range of majority of players
- at the same time, there was nothing the poor-end side of the economy could offer to me

i detached myself from the majority of economy, trading mostly with other idol crafters/farmers. i only needed gold (rotas) and precursor idols to recomb, other stuff i picked up in maps had negligible value compared to 10-40div idols i had on sale (and they sold easily) so Joe Causal pretty much never saw items i listed

every new jank build (i had the luxury of playing jank because Idols crafting was HO warrior style) meant purchasing sessions but I that also completely dodged listings from Joe Casuals

and - i still mostly sold shovels to the true elite who actually bought set of 5 perfect-4-mod 1x1 idols for .5mirr and still deemed it reasonable investment


im sure i was still a small speck on the economy of that fabulous league. so yeah, it is a circular economy or rather stratified economy with hardly any flow between strata

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

Don't make builds that depend on T0 uniques and minmax crafted items, don't need to worry about them getting expensive.

Hot take: Chase uniques and minmax rares shouldn't exist. You people wouldn't be complaining that the game is too easy, necessitating that ubers and T17s to exist in the first place, if GGG didn't let the top end of player power get out of control.

uhh..


Others already posted better responses.


No is what I have to say here.

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

. You're not going to see heavy strike builds engaging in it, outside of the less-than-a-handful of madlads who are ride-or-die for it.

Ill never understand this forums like obsession with heavy strike.

Especially when these players have 0 builds with it; or personal experience behind it and just kind of repeat what other people say as some sort of gotcha example.

So hi.

Heavy strike user for settlers, necro settlers, phrecia, and some of merc(got insanely bored)


Just for reference Pizza.

Heavy strike, you can replace every single person using earth shatter and minimally change out a passive or two (youll want the splash node for clear) with heavy strike/ancestral call (for clear).



And bam. You have slightly lower clear than ES, way higher single target than any slam build can achieve.

Less busy work as well with cries and automation but lets not go into that.....


You boss faster than they can by several miles.




Stop using heavy strike in arguments people.


I actually have a post where I showed my investment for 40/40 settlers and it was sub 20 divs if you need a link. t17s easy on even budget gear...


WITH heavy strike.

WITH rarity support in a slot lmfao

^I was WAITING for Mash to pounce on the Heavy Strike callout haha, nice. Ftw

How many years have you been on these threads, bashing every argument that others bring up using heavy strike as a (bad) exemplar? Folks that likely have never even touched the skill.

I think even he knew you were gonna come trash his argument, when he mentioned the "madlads".