T17 maps and modifiers are THE WORST thing that happened to POE

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Its most definitely a game design issue. T17s suck and their map mods suck, and there is also no reason why we shouldn't be able to scour them.

You being unable to run them well is not a game issue, it's a skill issue.
The same way it's not a game issue that you don't want to learn to work around mods, or simply roll past them like everyone else would do.

There's a very good reason why you can't scour them.You're just not supposed to run the maps without mods by design even if you dislike it that you can't park walk through t17 maps. They are not supposed to feel like unjuiced early red maps.

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They're just a waste of chaos orbs, I got better things to do than delete 200c rolling these maps lmao, I can sell them for 100c+ each to people that enjoy running them for some reason.

If you have to spend 200 chaos on a single map something's very wrong not gonna lie. But knowing what your build looks like I'm honestly not surprised about it.
You can even use 20-30 chaos orb to get a decent map going on a mediocre build, and still net profit even with sub optimal results. Chaos orbs drop like candy these days so they pretty much sustain themselves including a map device craft 24/7.

Players obviously run those maps cause they are profitable, and for many farming methods better than t16 maps, or even the new introduced maps. Players run and buy t17 maps cause they simply grow out of t16 maps at some point. It's called natural progression cause t16 is no longer the endgame since leagues lol. This might sound crazy for you but at some point it's actually even worth it to fully hide chaos orb drops unless they drop in a larger stack, and you still make more profit.

Not everyone is hardstuck in alc&go t16 maps, you know?

Its absolutely on the game that this content is the way it is. Stop blaming the players for no reason.

And I mean spending 200 chaos rolling multiple maps kek, I can do a t17 if I roll prefixes/suffixes that do nothing, then remove the other half with Scarab of Bisection and use Scarab of Stability for more portals. It takes like 20-30 mins if I'm not just boss-rushing, but I can do them. It's not worth it though, the fragments that drop almost never sell for more than the map itself, unless I get eater of worlds fragment from Fortress lol

I'm good in my t16 alch&go chill strongbox mapping thanks. That or some fun expedition in 8-mod Mesa maps with red influence. I make enough currency just from selling and 3-to-1 vendoring all my scarabs. That and random lucky drops from bosses like a jewel from exarch or something. No reason for me to ever "grow out of" t16s when tier 17 maps are such giga cringe. Same for t16.5 I run those scoured and rush to the boss to sell the invitation the moment it drops lmaaao

I'm not "hardstuck", I simply refuse to run badly designed content. I'll keep ignoring these maps and selling them until they actually become fun for the average player. Right now it is literally more profitable and better for me to sell t17s ALWAYS. And that is the game's fault for it being designed this way.


Also why would I ever hide chaos on my filter? I never play in groups or do MF strats. I just use neversink Regular filter, slightly edited to hide a few div cards and highlight my favorite Mesa map in a nice color lol

Never done T17, I usually lose interest playing after I beat uber elder and never pushed my build to ubers level.

I get it is one of those "aspirational contents" but if the economy is built around farming those, seems like a standard GGG scissors design - the more you get into full commitment, the more you get, so classic poe.

That said - if it is reflected in the cost of dropped item (base t17 unrolled map) isn't it all fine and dandy?

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Marxone#0650 wrote:

Never done T17, I usually lose interest playing after I beat uber elder and never pushed my build to ubers level.

I get it is one of those "aspirational contents" but if the economy is built around farming those, seems like a standard GGG scissors design - the more you get into full commitment, the more you get, so classic poe.

That said - if it is reflected in the cost of dropped item (base t17 unrolled map) isn't it all fine and dandy?

Yeah, I don't mind always selling my t17 maps and not touching them forever. Its just a shame that all that dev time was wasted on content that only the 0.1% will ever do is all. If their goal with designing this aspirational content was to make me completely ignore it, I guess its a success.

And if the best choice is to always sell the maps anytime they drop for the average player, then in my eyes this is bad game design. They tried to create some kind of bridge with t16.5 but just couldn't help themselves and put t17 mods on them anyways lmao, at least that bug is fixed that let people run them 8-mod corrupted with 8 t17 mods. Imagine actually wanting to run maps like this. Unless I have a build that can ignore all map modifiers, I ain't touching that with a 50 km stick.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

You being unable to run them well is not a game issue, it's a skill issue.
The same way it's not a game issue that you don't want to learn to work around mods, or simply roll past them like everyone else would do.

Just wanna point out: don't confuse skill issue with build issue. Some builds are 100% shut off because of a few mods and more often than not have a niche, expensive or unreliable way to fix it.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Just wanna point out: don't confuse skill issue with build issue. Some builds are 100% shut off because of a few mods and more often than not have a niche, expensive or unreliable way to fix it.

I mean there's always the case that you may or may not have to reroll the map because of a certain mod. But if you struggle to run 90% of the mods, even regular mods something's wrong.

Players are in charge for what they play and how they play, and if someone already struggles with the basics it's kinda not really a game issue if they start to hit a wall due to their own decisions or lack of knowledge.
Cause in the end playing a bad build, making bad decisions just playing the wrong type of build is also nothing but a true skill issue.
If someone's getting filtered by endgame due to a unoptimized build that's their fault, not the games fault. If someone's not really good at mechanics, but decides to play a zhp build, even without capped resistances on top, and gets clapped in t17 or overall early endgame, that's also their problem and a skill issue, build related but still a skill issue.

At this point it's hard to blame the game for everything while most problems can be pinpointed back at the character, and therefore the player itself.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Yeah, I don't mind always selling my t17 maps and not touching them forever. Its just a shame that all that dev time was wasted on content that only the 0.1% will ever do is all. If their goal with designing this aspirational content was to make me completely ignore it, I guess its a success.

And if the best choice is to always sell the maps anytime they drop for the average player, then in my eyes this is bad game design.

I think it at least 5% players, not 0.1%, but overall i fully agree.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Just wanna point out: don't confuse skill issue with build issue. Some builds are 100% shut off because of a few mods and more often than not have a niche, expensive or unreliable way to fix it.

I'd argue quite the opposite: build issues are almost ALWAYS skill issues. Creating a viable build IS a fundamental skill of playing PoE. Experience and knowledge are legitimate SKILLS that require development.

If you are attempting t17s, its your job as a "skilled" player to create a build that doesn't have the situation you describe.


As to the regex comments: regex aren't "required" by anyone. They make rolling a LOT of maps at once easier, but rolling individual maps basically doesn't require a regex.

So the problem isn't the individual mods (when talking regex), the problem is actually the game requiring you to reroll a lot at once and not providing an easy way to do this.

But what if someone copy paste meta build, which is quite usual in PoE (ES trickster for example) and say "T17 mods is ok, it just skill issue". While i playing on non meta builds, because it's boring. Is this copy paste guy have more skill than me?

I agree it still my fail if i am not succeed at making T17 build, that doesn't need 30 chaos orbs spam on every map. But if 95% other builds also struggles here, then it's a game fault (if it not intentional game design)

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

But what if someone copy paste meta build, which is quite usual in PoE (ES trickster for example) and say "T17 mods is ok, it just skill issue". While i playing on non meta builds, because it's boring. Is this copy paste guy have more skill than me?

I agree it still my fail if i am not succeed at making T17 build, that doesn't need 30 chaos orbs spam on every map. But if 95% other builds also struggles here, then it's a game fault (if it not intentional game design)

There are other types of skills lol.....it isn't ONLY building correctly. Put a perfect mirrored out build in the hands of someone that has no idea what they are doing, and they aren't going to do well no matter what. THAT would be a different set of skills that are ALSO required.

Copying a build is a way to BYPASS the skill check that is build creation....but it doesn't suddenly make your reaction time better, or game knowledge better, etc.

Unless its a legitimate "bug", it is practically NEVER the game's fault. And if you jump to "its a game fault".....its far more likely you simply aren't thinking hard enough.



I would say the VAST majority of folks who complain about t17s....are lacking in any number of skills they have "bypassed" for far too long. And so they blame the game for being too hard or unfair when it......simply isn't. You can even read this in some of the posts within this short thread about it.

" I feel like T17's were the worst addition to the core game, and they have literally zero positives. "
"I'm not "hardstuck", I simply refuse to run badly designed content"
"Its just a shame that all that dev time was wasted on content that only the 0.1% will ever do is all. If their goal with designing this aspirational content was to make me completely ignore it, I guess its a success."

These are the comments of people with zero interest in changing their playstyle, or improving in any meaningful way. They found it badly designed (code for hard) because suddenly they were back to dying all the time....and rather than rise to the challenge, chose to take to the forums to decry it as bad design. Meanwhile, thousands of other players are having no issues. Or at least not remotely to the same degree.

I will admit though, layouts are pretty bad.

I think main problem is the feel that you can run T17, but wasting 20c and time to reroll is annoying. For example i can't kill Uber Sirus, i am a bad player, but i don't care, ubers should be strong. But with T17 i want make less rerolling.

And because of this i wrote "nerf mods, increase base mob difficulty", because in this case i feel that i am weak, not "this stupid mod again appears on map".