Popular Opinion: League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Do you think I'm gonna struggle through a 5-10 minute bossfight and actually dodge and play mechanics? No lol, there's a reason why I play a build that trivializes all boss mechanics. I don't understand the point of these out of context quotes.

Again, Sanctum is a joke to me. I can do it without relics,boons,fountains or Divinia. Just on 300 Resolve. All the bosses literally melt in 2-3 seconds and Lycia insta-phases after she does 1 attack. What I won't do though is Sanctum on some random build not made for that content, it just makes sense to get a carry if you're copying a build that uses a bloodline ascendancy. You need those points as early as possible.

So, if I’m understanding correctly, you consider Sanctum to be a joke, yet you still choose to buy a carry because you don’t want to “struggle for minutes” during the fight, while at the same time claiming to have no issues with the fights themselves.

What???

I literally said I'd buy a carry/ask a friend for a carry if I played a different build which requires the Lycia bloodline ascendancy. I can do Sanctum just fine on my normal build lmfao

I've had to repeat myself like 3 times now lol

Sanctum is a joke to me when I have 200 mil dps, when I can insta-phase and melt bosses before they can attack me a single time, yes. I love trivializing content and bosses, that's like half the reason I even play this game?

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I can do Sanctum just fine on my normal build lmfao

I've had to repeat myself like 3 times now lol

Sanctum is a joke to me when I have 200 mil dps, when I can insta-phase and melt bosses before they can attack me a single time, yes. I love trivializing content and bosses, that's like half the reason I even play this game?

So you just confirmed it yourself, since a 10 million damage build already completely trivializes Sanctum, there’s really no reason for “carry runs” to exist, hitting that threshold is such a low bar that practically anyone can clear it without breaking a sweat or spending a fortune on optimizations.

Honestly, if 10 million already trivializes the content, half of that would still be more than fine, so thanks for agreeing on some real numbers.

If 10 million makes Sanctum a joke, what on earth would 200 million do? Clearly, it’s time for GGG to invest in some genuinely aspirational, FOMO-inducing content, a real playground for those lucky enough to reach 200 million damage. Something like T18 or T19 maps, or an uber uber-charged version of existing encounters that makes 200 million feel like mere pocket change, where you actually have to push your gear to the limit and feel like a walking god just to keep up. Or better yet, tie this new content to the last tiers of the challenge reward, obviously, you won’t be able to bypass those checks via carries.

Now that would be some truly long-anticipated, thrilling content players would genuinely wait for.

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Felix44#4475 wrote:

I'm not personally a fan of the elitism in this game and people acting like being good at POE is rocket science and reaching lvl 100 is equal to finding the cure for cancer, but as long as it doesn't affect me...sure, whatever, enjoy your thing.

in my many years in this forums i've always fought for the little guys. i dont like a lot of the aspirational content in the game as the gap between casual players and the better ones is horribly large. 5-7 years ago my self made build was only scratching the surface of 100k dps. but due to myself improving and due to balance changes, im now doing a modest 1-2 million dps (could be more).

i know how its like to suck ass, and i know how frustrating it can feel.

but i draw the line for this particular issue. mainly because league challenge rewards are purely mtx and doesnt affect gameplay.

i want casual players to be able to engage in all the content the game has to offer. such as ubers etc. this is because there exclusive drops that can improve/change their characters powers. it affects their gameplay directly.

on the other hand challenge rewards are all cosmetic. and if i m being honest the 36 challenges tho can take work, it is very much achievable and i believe is a fair ask for free mtx rewards.

if you say you cant spend too much time in the game, i get you. thats why i hate reset leagues. if i had it my way i want league content to be released on standard directly whenever a league starts, but we're both kidding ourselves if we say we play this game with the expectation that our time is respected.

heck the game dev's company name is literally grinding gear game.

iirc many of the 36 challenges are mostly completed by the player by playing normally to begin with. and if im being honest, its almost a freebie. just you need to put in the effort.

tho i would say i wouldnt mind if ggg made the 36 challenges easier either.

as for 40/40. i personally thing the last 4 challenges being difficult should be fine. this level of elitism is deserved. you dont get to sit at the big boys table if you dont pass the test. and if we're being honest its ok to not sit at the big boys table in this case. coz theres literally nothing there except boys [Removed by Support]

I don't think ggg is interested in "aspirational content". They had it with ubers before they added t17s and changed their loot tables. Then decided to change it.

Aspirational content can only exist in games that aren't stock market simulators. The motivation to do "aspirational content" in poe will always be economical and not just to do it.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

I don't think ggg is interested in "aspirational content". They had it with ubers before they added t17s and changed their loot tables. Then decided to change it.

Aspirational content can only exist in games that aren't stock market simulators. The motivation to do "aspirational content" in poe will always be economical and not just to do it.

to me aspirational content should always feel optional.

the problem with how most modern d-likes handle aspirational content is they tend to tie exclusive rewards to aspirational content.

this then makes the content feel required rather than optional. the idea is, if players dont feel rewarded for doing aspirational content, then they wont do it.

but since its that way, it also gives players the feeling of missing out if they cant run the content.

I can't imagine being lame enough too cry and want others to do my challenges for me to get some reward I didn't earn. What is the point of getting a "reward" for something you didn't do? Like cheating in school, sure you pass but then you never learned anything so what really is the point? Next test you won't know anything, and will perpetually rely on others. For the most part, this game is pretty easy with all the alternate means of crafting and item acquisition available. With Kingsmarch, you even have a constant flow of currency and other items you may need to do specific stuff for, such as catalysts.

I have played in trade just because it is convenient to get certain things such as unique maps with less grind, but there are plenty of crafting options available where you don't really need to rely on trade for gear to complete all the content. Sure it is helpful and I trade for items some, but often end up crafting most of my own stuff for many items anyway as I may be looking for specific mods that aren't commonly traded, or just not available. I have considered trying SSF, but haven't yet.

I would say it may be better keeping trade, but requiring challenges be done solo. This would impact some doing stuff with friends, though this is likely a smaller portion. If rewards are given out easy because people can just pay to get them, they become meaningless and there is less point in having them. Like if you could just pay to get an Olympic medal.

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xeridea#1822 wrote:

If rewards are given out easy because people can just pay to get them, they become meaningless and there is less point in having them. Like if you could just pay to get an Olympic medal.

actually thats the main reason why its tradable.

the challenge rewards are actually bribes to get players to try out the leagues.

back in the day NONE of my friends played leagues.

myself included.

however there were 2 definite reasons why we would play leagues.

1. exclusive gear to that we can bring back to standard
2. cool AF mtx that we can get for "free".

the challenge rewards are actually marketing.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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xeridea#1822 wrote:

If rewards are given out easy because people can just pay to get them, they become meaningless and there is less point in having them. Like if you could just pay to get an Olympic medal.

actually thats the main reason why its tradable.

the challenge rewards are actually bribes to get players to try out the leagues.

back in the day NONE of my friends played leagues.

myself included.

however there were 2 definite reasons why we would play leagues.

1. exclusive gear to that we can bring back to standard
2. cool AF mtx that we can get for "free".

the challenge rewards are actually marketing.

Exactly. 90% of the reason I played any leagues at all was because of the cool free MTX for 36 or 38 challenges(though I'm glad they lowered it to 36 again). Especially when it was a portal mtx or a pet or other cool stuff. That's the thing that motivated me to even play. That's why I keep coming back every single league no matter how good or bad the mechanic itself is. And even if this breach mechanic sucks big time, I can still have fun because to me the base game is in such a good state anyway.

There's a lot of people just like me who only play for the challenge mtx. There's a reason they've been making these challenges more loose in their requirements.For example, do X amount of league mechanics now let you choose from many different ones, instead of being forced to do 4 specifc ones. This way you can do whats most fun to you and still complete challenges. They've been actively making the challenges easier and more fun to do, with less restrictions.

Even the cross contamination and "kill specific boss while not getting hit/while doing X,Y,Z" ones have gotten much better compared to previous leagues. And the amount of challenges that rely heavily on RNG is very low now too, instead we just have challenges to use expensive currency orbs which is just -X Divine orbs for a casual like me who never crafts anything but its whatever. Every league when the challenges ask me to use stuff like awakener's orb I use it on random trash loot from shaper/elder then delete the item lol


Been getting 36 challenges since Essence, stopped for a while and then started again and the challenge system has consistently kept me coming back for years. I'd say this marketing strat of giving people free mtx for playing the new content works very well lol

They could give people special colored badges for doing challenges in hc or ssf, I wouldn't care. Or reskins of the mtx challenge rewards. I'm just in it for the free mtx.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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Felix44#4475 wrote:

I'm not personally a fan of the elitism in this game and people acting like being good at POE is rocket science and reaching lvl 100 is equal to finding the cure for cancer, but as long as it doesn't affect me...sure, whatever, enjoy your thing.

in my many years in this forums i've always fought for the little guys. i dont like a lot of the aspirational content in the game as the gap between casual players and the better ones is horribly large. 5-7 years ago my self made build was only scratching the surface of 100k dps. but due to myself improving and due to balance changes, im now doing a modest 1-2 million dps (could be more).

i know how its like to suck ass, and i know how frustrating it can feel.

but i draw the line for this particular issue. mainly because league challenge rewards are purely mtx and doesnt affect gameplay.

i want casual players to be able to engage in all the content the game has to offer. such as ubers etc. this is because there exclusive drops that can improve/change their characters powers. it affects their gameplay directly.

on the other hand challenge rewards are all cosmetic. and if i m being honest the 36 challenges tho can take work, it is very much achievable and i believe is a fair ask for free mtx rewards.

if you say you cant spend too much time in the game, i get you. thats why i hate reset leagues. if i had it my way i want league content to be released on standard directly whenever a league starts, but we're both kidding ourselves if we say we play this game with the expectation that our time is respected.

heck the game dev's company name is literally grinding gear game.

iirc many of the 36 challenges are mostly completed by the player by playing normally to begin with. and if im being honest, its almost a freebie. just you need to put in the effort.

tho i would say i wouldnt mind if ggg made the 36 challenges easier either.

as for 40/40. i personally thing the last 4 challenges being difficult should be fine. this level of elitism is deserved. you dont get to sit at the big boys table if you dont pass the test. and if we're being honest its ok to not sit at the big boys table in this case. coz theres literally nothing there except boys [Removed by Support]

I would say my time in the game is very much respected - but that's because I make it so. I've heard a lot of people say that the game doesn't respect their time but...most of it is self-inflicted, honestly.

I play POE for about 2 weeks after launch, 3 if I really love the league, 1 if I find it mediocre or bad. In those 2 weeks, I have A LOT of fun.

Been playing POE since early 2013. I used to be like everyone else - power farmer, floor is lava, MB by w2 or I suck ass, etc. Always picking the most profitable strats regardless of what they were, always making profit spreadsheets in my head or on paper to see how much div/hour I get doing this or that.

Now, this will not apply to everyone, obviously, but when I look back on all of that, I'm wondering wth I was thinking. Half the time I wasn't really even having fun, I was grinding...for the promise of future fun? I don't even know. Right now I play exactly what I want, exactly when I want it. I'll respec from the most profitable strat to 0-profit bestiary (it's not 0 profit anymore but it used to be) if I feel like it. And let me tell you, THAT's pretty damn fun.

Of course, you do need some basic knowledge on how to make currency - usually from crafts, since that doesn't require you to play any specific content. But once you've got that out of the way you're free to have fun doing exactly what you want to do and nothing more or less than that. You don't need 50 mirrors to do all content, 50-100 div is more than enough.

I've strayed from the main point a bit, but the reason I'm saying all of this is that challenges feel that exact same to me. Something that pigeonholes you into doing things you don't find fun. For completion, for rewards, whatever. People are so easily pushed into doing that - I mean, half the playerbase is doing it honestly - that I really don't think we need any more incentive for that.

Ofc GGG wants league retention and keeping players playing as much as possible - that's perfectly normal. But it is not their job to value your time, it's yours. I think GGG is one of the best companies right now, in terms of development of the game. I'm not a fanboy, they've made plenty of mistakes, game was in shambles at times. But they made a comeback, they learned from their mistakes, they genuinely care about the game and to some extent, the playerbase. I think the game is in a great state right now, and that's thanks to the dedication from the devs. But they are still a company, the game is still a product, and the primary goal is always to sell, everything else comes second.

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Felix44#4475 wrote:

I would say my time in the game is very much respected - but that's because I make it so. I've heard a lot of people say that the game doesn't respect their time but...most of it is self-inflicted, honestly.

100% this lol. I feel like people need to try out more different stuff if they don't like what they're doing at that time. E.g. I get bored quickly when I play Trade, because I hit powerspikes early and run out of things to do, so I play SSF or small private leagues instead.

And if breaking the mould isn't it, then maybe something else is amiss. But it ain't GGG not valuing our time enough, otherwise we wouldn't receive so much new content every league.