Popular Opinion: League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nobody wants to be forced to play the game in a certain way

This is the whole reason why your argument falls completely apart.

Challenges are NOT forced on anyone, they are ALREADY a choice you make to engage with them. And you don't get to choose what they are. Just like CHOOSING SSF. Or CHOOSING Ruthless. It is exactly that CHOICE that sets them apart from "normal" gameplay. By setting 40/40 as your goal, you are making a specific choice on HOW to interact with the game which is DIFFERENT from what the base game dictates of you as a player.

No one who CHOOSES SSF is going to complain that they can't trade. They already KNOW that by choosing to engage with the game in that EXTRA mode comes with its own set of rules. Similarly, choosing to engage with Challenges is EXTRA that is apart from the game mode that you choose. It stands SEPARATE from the aspects of the game you DON'T choose to opt into.


And hey, guess what? There IS "forced" aspects of nearly everything in this game. Want to engage with blight? Well you are "forced" to create a certain type of build and play a certain way. Want to engage with Breach? You are "forced" to move quickly and kill lots of enemies fast.

The entire game is built on, once you choose something to do, being "forced" to engage in the content in the way the content is designed to be engaged with.

Lmao all this thread is trying to do is ruin other people's fun and force them into a cringy ssf playstyle. This is an objective fact, and that's why its just never happening. GGG would lose too many players and too much money if they did that, and a lot of people would be angry too. The backlash would be insane. Doesn't matter how many ways you try to mental gymnastics your way out of it and explain it in some way that fits your belief system, I am simply stating the facts.


Just go play SSF or do the challenges yourself on trade if you want the "prestige" of doing them solo, there is absolutely no reason to force everyone else to do the same except for some weird ego boost. Which is not a reason to change the game in any way btw

Literally leave all the other players alone, stop trying to force your ideas and playstyle on everyone else. That's never a fun thing. People can play however they want, and they can do whatever they want, and so can you. And they don't have to """improve""", that's just your opinion. Paying for carries has always been, will always be a valid way to play this game. How hard that is to accept isn't anyone else's problem, and its none of anyone's business how someone chooses to play this game and have fun with it. You are trying to take this choice away, and force people to play in the "correct" way. That's toxic and elitist, and is never happening.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Lmao all this thread is trying to do is ruin other people's fun and force them into a cringy ssf playstyle. This is an objective fact, and that's why its just never happening. GGG would lose too many players and too much money if they did that, and a lot of people would be angry too. The backlash would be insane. Doesn't matter how many ways you try to mental gymnastics your way out of it and explain it in some way that fits your belief system, I am simply stating the facts.


Just go play SSF or do the challenges yourself on trade if you want the "prestige" of doing them solo, there is absolutely no reason to force everyone else to do the same except for some weird ego boost. Which is not a reason to change the game in any way btw

Literally leave all the other players alone, stop trying to force your ideas and playstyle on everyone else. That's never a fun thing. People can play however they want, and they can do whatever they want, and so can you. And they don't have to """improve""", that's just your opinion. Paying for carries has always been, will always be a valid way to play this game. How hard that is to accept isn't anyone else's problem, and its none of anyone's business how someone chooses to play this game and have fun with it. You are trying to take this choice away, and force people to play in the "correct" way. That's toxic and elitist, and is never happening.

I don't think lmao means what you think it does. Besides that you're repeating the same "arguments", or rather phrases - because that's what you write, not arguments - for several pages now.

Clearly there is a desire for change, or at least solid grounds for discussion.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Literally leave all the other players alone, stop trying to force your ideas and playstyle on everyone else. That's never a fun thing.

Do you realize how ABSURD this is? Why are there different games in this world? Why are there different genres? Why do multiple video game companies and creators exist? Why have none of us been playing the same game since the advent of games?

Because "games" by their very design attempt to embody and "force" a certain way to play. That is why they exist in different forms. Because even the tiniest variance in DESIGN can result in a completely different approach from the players. The BEST games actually limit total freedom in order to "direct" our behavior more efficiently. Structure is a GOOD and welcome, practically necessary thing in every aspect of life, including video games.

We are not the game designers. We aren't living in a sandbox with no structure. This is a game, with specific choices made by the DEVELOPERS on how the game is played. They ban people for hacking and using certain external tools that CHANGE the way they want people to play. Gaming in general has shifted to the "always online" mode specifically so players could NOT engage in the game any way THEY choose. We are not the ones in control, never have been.

You want a game with TOTAL freedom of choice? Make it yourself. Because that is the only realistic situation where your statements hold any truth.


And when games attempt to leave things TOO free, TOO unlimited.....it absolutely does detract from the experience for ALL. This game would not be what it is today if developers left "all the other" players alone. That simply isn't how it has EVER worked, except back in the day of cheats and hacks and modding. And those things barely ever existed in any kind of "balanced" multiplayer game environment.

In fact.....consider if PoE never had ANY balancing done. Ever. Would that game even still exist today? Did all that balancing directly affect YOU every single time? Obviously not, but those were exceptionally important to how ALL of us interact with the game



TLDR: Game development EXISTS to direct (or "force") us in how to approach the product. It's not about what one player versus another finds particularly "fun", its about what is good for the WHOLE. And we don't have any power or control over that, nor have we ever short of creating our own game from scratch.

***And making an active attempt to have us actually PLAY the game versus utilizing and even encouraging things that actively have us AVOID the game is just a complete no-brainer*** That is "idle game" philosophy: press the "auto" button and set it off to the side.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Lmao all this thread is trying to do is ruin other people's fun and force them into a cringy ssf playstyle.

This is your personal opinion. If it ruins your gameplay experience, then so be it, deal with it. There are plenty of people who would actually welcome an improvement to the challenge system. It's not about forcing full SSF, and you still don’t seem to grasp that point.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

This is an objective fact, and that's why its just never happening. GGG would lose too many players and too much money if they did that, and a lot of people would be angry too. The backlash would be insane.

That’s not an objective fact, it’s just you presenting your personal opinion as if it represents the entire community, which it clearly doesn’t. Honestly, if you’re so convinced that GGG would never implement a change like this, then why are we even here debating it? And if it’s truly a lost cause, why put so much effort into derailing what is, at its core, a well-constructed piece of feedback?

It seems we both know full well that a change like this could realistically happen in any patch, which is exactly where all the discomfort and FOMO are coming from.

It's also quite unlikely that GGG would lose players over a change to a system that, realistically, has relatively low impact on the core gameplay. If anything, the game has consistently grown in player numbers, even through updates and changes that weren’t universally well-received. Take Tier 17, for example some players, like yourself, didn’t enjoy it, often because they were getting farmed by Pixel more frequently. And yet, here we all are, still playing, despite those substantial shifts in gameplay.

In comparison, the challenge system is optional content. Any adjustments made to it would be relatively minor and unlikely to affect players who rely on carries or choose not to engage deeply with it.

You also mentioned that you don't spend any money on the game, so if you're implying that GGG would be losing you as a customer over this, the reality is they wouldn’t be losing a single cent.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Doesn't matter how many ways you try to mental gymnastics your way out of it and explain it in some way that fits your belief system, I am simply stating the facts.

What seems to be happening here is that your discomfort stems from the possibility that GGG might address what some see as an oversight, and that change, however small, unsettles you. The rest feels like an attempt to present a personal opinion as objective fact.

At the end of the day, this is your perspective not insider knowledge of how GGG operates or what player retention metrics would look like if a specific change were made. If anything, GGG has far more data and insight than any of us, and this section of the forum exists for the purpose of gathering player feedback, which this discussion clearly falls under.

It’s worth remembering that this forum isn’t “Toforto’s personal roadmap for how the game must be.” You don’t speak for the entire community, and it would be more constructive to stop presenting your views as if you do.


Just go play SSF or do the challenges yourself on trade if you want the "prestige" of doing them solo, there is absolutely no reason to force everyone else to do the same except for some weird ego boost. Which is not a reason to change the game in any way btw

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Literally leave all the other players alone, stop trying to force your ideas and playstyle on everyone else. That's never a fun thing. People can play however they want, and they can do whatever they want, and so can you.

Once again, this discussion is not about game modes — it’s specifically about the challenge system. So I kindly ask that you refrain from telling others to "just play a certain mode" as a way to dismiss feedback. This has unfortunately become a common, oversimplified response — a kind of one-size-fits-all “gotcha” that undermines meaningful conversation.

Playing SSF is not a definitive solution to the current shortcomings of the challenge system, nor should it be treated as such.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And they don't have to """improve""", that's just your opinion. Paying for carries has always been, will always be a valid way to play this game.

This will remain the case only until GGG chooses to address the oversight and invests in a proper rework of the system, something you, I, and many others know could realistically happen in any upcoming patch.

And if it does, you’ll still be able to play the game your way, with your preferred mindset and approach. It’s just that your style of play might no longer be enough to comfortably secure challenge rewards, and that’s something some players may simply have to come to terms with, should the time come.

In the end, it could be an opportunity for growth, and anyone who wants to adapt and improve will have the chance to do so.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

You are trying to take this choice away, and force people to play in the "correct" way. That's toxic and elitist, and is never happening.

What truly reflects toxicity and elitism in this context is the act of jumping into a feedback thread, and yes, to reiterate, this is the feedback section of the forum, meant for discussing ideas and addressing potential oversights. only to deliberately derail the conversation out of personal discomfort, rather than engaging with it through constructive and valid arguments.
I also think you’re simply trying to force your personal opinion on everyone, despite the fact that it’s clear you do not represent or speak for the entire community.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

I also think you’re simply trying to force your personal opinion on everyone, despite the fact that it’s clear you do not represent or speak for the entire community.

doesn't even represent the majority in a group of maybe 10 people within this thread, let alone the community writ large lol.

THAT is objective fact.

Bump for visibility, here’s hoping we see some impactful changes in 3.27 or 3.28.
With mercs eventually going core, let’s keep the momentum going and push for more thoughtful improvements!

play SSF otherwise you didn't complete any challenges by yourself ( trade league )

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Challenges are NOT forced on anyone

i would say for ggg, challenges are a form of marketing.

without challenge they cant justify giving out mtx rewards.

i've actually reviewed more or less all the challenges from all our past leagues.

i've come to the conclusion that its perfectly fine for ggg to make challenges purely "SOLO".

most people who play for the sake of earning mtx rewards dont care about 40/40 pole.

based on my analysis hitting 36/40 is actually reasonable for most "above average players".

the last 4 challenges are only for the very top players. for the "best" mtx rewards we only need 36.

and even tho i say that. i would prefer if ggg did relax a bit on their RNG based challenges or get rid of them entirely.

Bump for visibility!