Popular Opinion: League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

So you all are complaining about clearing challenges solo but still wanna play the easiest poe mode there is with SC Trade? Like what?

Do it in SSF and you can be happy and let people play how they want. Seems like you wanna do everything by your own then you shouldn´t be able to trade aswell.
Btw thats by your logic not by mine and I hope you realise how insane that sounds.

It’s not that this mode is “easier”, it’s simply the one the game is balanced around, with trade as a core pillar. Crafting and loot systems are carefully tuned with that economy in mind. SSF isn’t inherently more challenging, rather, it’s more grind-heavy and time-consuming because you lack the convenience of trading, but you’re still facing essentially the same base game and the same challenges.

If anything, SSF just slows down progression without fundamentally altering the gameplay experience. For SSF to feel truly unique, it should have its own tailored set of challenges and balance designed specifically for that playstyle. Meanwhile, even in trade leagues, the challenge system itself is in need of a serious rework, it should be more engaging, rewarding those who put effort into it instead of allowing players to bypass challenges through carry cheese.

Historically, leagues like HC and Ruthless received their own unique challenge rewards, setting a good example. But that’s not the main point here. The real issue is that challenges are currently too easy to cheese, and many remain stuck in outdated “vendor recipe” style objectives, which just aren’t fun or meaningful anymore.

In short, the challenge system needs a redesign that fosters genuine engagement and fair difficulty, rather than simply prolonging grind or enabling loopholes.

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

Since many here using 2nd account to write in the forum who knows if you even reached 30 challenges or even play the game.

I don’t believe this point holds significant weight. Some players opt to use a second account for privacy reasons, others may lack a challenge count beside their name simply because they chose to skip a league, and some invest more heavily in Standard, only dipping into leagues that genuinely capture their interest. None of this, however, diminishes the core argument.

In fact, achieving a 40/40 challenge completion in today’s Path of Exile is neither particularly difficult nor demanding, even when done solo. Many players accomplish this feat in SSF, myself included in past leagues, as well as in trade leagues. Having completed several 40/40 runs across both modes, I can attest that around 30 of those challenges are essentially free, leaving roughly 10 that split between sheer grind and a handful that genuinely test your skills. Ultimately, the current system falls short of presenting a meaningful or engaging challenge.

Bump for visibility. :)

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

It’s not that this mode is “easier”, it’s simply the one the game is balanced around, with trade as a core pillar. Crafting and loot systems are carefully tuned with that economy in mind. SSF isn’t inherently more challenging, rather, it’s more grind-heavy and time-consuming because you lack the convenience of trading, but you’re still facing essentially the same base game and the same challenges.

If anything, SSF just slows down progression without fundamentally altering the gameplay experience.

It's such a shame that so few people understand or even TRY to understand this concept right here.

Trade is the default mode. Not easy, not hard. Just default
SSF is the SAME DIFFICULTY, different rules. The only difference being it takes longer. This isn't the same as "harder".

HC IS considered a harder mode, because one wrong move could net you a HUGE loss. And penalty magnitude is certainly a layer of difficulty. But even HC TECHNICALLY isn't any harder or easier than trade: its just a different style of play.

Ruthless is the only mode that is ACTUALLY designed specifically to be harder. When the passives are less powerful, skills are changed and limited, potions are less effective, etc...THAT creates a harder environment because you ultimately are INCAPABLE of reaching the same levels of power as any other mode in the game. Meanwhile (and maybe I'm wrong on this), monsters or "bad" modifiers are programmed to be more powerful. Regardless of how people subjectively feel about the "difficulty level" of ruthless, the DESIGN is straight up more difficulty.



When people throw around the "Just play SSF" thing as if it ends any possible discussion....its quite ridiculous and shows a clear misunderstanding of pretty much the whole argument being made in this thread.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

L take -1, nobody wants to be forced to play SSF. That's a boring playstyle where everything is grindy and takes way too long.

People can play the game however they want, and carry services even for stuff like bosses and voidsotnes are a huge part of the SC Trade economy. That isn't going away lmfao

If I wanna throw 6 divines at someone for 30x T17 completions, I will happily do so and have fun while doing it. Same for uber bosses, even though I could do them myself after spending some more divs on gear. It still takes skill to do challenges fast you know, to solely focus on them and figure out the best,fastest and most optimal ways to do them. And sometimes those ways are going to TFT or trade 820 and whispering some people for carries lol

And people can play whatever build they want, this is a game. Who cares if someone wants to delete bosses in 1 second,trivialize all content and ignore all mechanics? We all deserve the freedom to choose how to enjoy this game.


I've even given challenge carries for Black Knight's challenges where you had to not get hit by his abilities during Settlers to random people in 820 chat by the way. That one and the Catarina "don't get hit by statue's banana beam" challenge. Was inviting 5 other people every time I got those bosses and giving it to em for free, because that's just fun to do as a part of the SC community. And some people were cool and even gave me tips when I never asked for any currency.

You might not like the truth, but many people love the concept of buying carries and doing carries, for challenges,for bosses and even for labyrinth.



And as far as I'm concerned, I still did the challenges. I have still completed them, doesn't matter how. I feel the exact same sense of achievement when I buy a carry as I do when doing a challenge myself, there is 0 difference between the two because I simply do them in the fastest and easiest way possible, whatever that may be.



Also what the person above this comment said, most challenges are just boring grinds now. It's just "do X maps with Y mechanic" etc. etc. and even I was able to speedrun them in 6 days without grouping. The only carries I bought was 4x Uber Boss kills and 30x T17 completion. And Maven+Uber Elder voidstones I guess.

“ I feel the exact same sense of achievement when I buy a carry as I do when doing a challenge myself” is a lie. There’s no way you feel the same sense of accomplishment having someone one shot a boss challenge versus you struggling through and finally completing it after a few attempts / gear and build adaptations.

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arkzabor1#4946 wrote:

“ I feel the exact same sense of achievement when I buy a carry as I do when doing a challenge myself” is a lie. There’s no way you feel the same sense of accomplishment having someone one shot a boss challenge versus you struggling through and finally completing it after a few attempts / gear and build adaptations.

Yep....what's truly sad though is that he might actually truly feel that way. Because "effort" is becoming a lost art. "Challenge" no longer holds any meaning to some players, because they have absolutely no interest in putting any kind of effort into anything....even things they ostensibly should WANT to such as hobbies or games.

It's straight up laziness and elitism: the idea that things should just be given to you simply because they exist.

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arkzabor1#4946 wrote:

“ I feel the exact same sense of achievement when I buy a carry as I do when doing a challenge myself” is a lie. There’s no way you feel the same sense of accomplishment having someone one shot a boss challenge versus you struggling through and finally completing it after a few attempts / gear and build adaptations.

I quite literally do though, what matters to me is that I complete them. Does not matter how. I simply choose the fastest and easiest ways to do them, speedrunning it. Its still me farming all the currency needed to pay someone 2 divines for an uber boss kill or whatever. Its just how I play the game man, it doesn't affect anyone else. Why do you think I play trade league? Because I can just buy any item I want instead of having to farm for it for hours and hours lol

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

“ It's straight up laziness and elitism: the idea that things should just be given to you simply because they exist.

You know what's true elitism though? Thinking its okay to force other players to play in a certain way just because you think paying for carries is somehow bad. When its a completely valid way to play this game(and many other games that have carry services too, just look at all the PoE 2 Ascendancy Sekhema carries where people pay 1 div to get all 8 points in 1 run LMAO like TFT is fuuuuull of those)

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

Since many here using 2nd account to write in the forum who knows if you even reached 30 challenges or even play the game.

I don’t believe this point holds significant weight. Some players opt to use a second account for privacy reasons, others may lack a challenge count beside their name simply because they chose to skip a league, and some invest more heavily in Standard, only dipping into leagues that genuinely capture their interest. None of this, however, diminishes the core argument.

In fact, achieving a 40/40 challenge completion in today’s Path of Exile is neither particularly difficult nor demanding, even when done solo. Many players accomplish this feat in SSF, myself included in past leagues, as well as in trade leagues. Having completed several 40/40 runs across both modes, I can attest that around 30 of those challenges are essentially free, leaving roughly 10 that split between sheer grind and a handful that genuinely test your skills. Ultimately, the current system falls short of presenting a meaningful or engaging challenge.

Well since I don´t know if you guys even play the game I can´t treat you otherwise. The majority of the community are super casual in the end thats why other modes exist for people with nothing else to do then playing poe and you have to accept this and move on. The only thing I could see is giving HC mode special mtx for completing challenges and thats it.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

You know what's true elitism though? Thinking its okay to force other players to play in a certain way just because you think paying for carries is somehow bad. When its a completely valid way to play this game(and many other games that have carry services too, just look at all the PoE 2 Ascendancy Sekhema carries where people pay 1 div to get all 8 points in 1 run LMAO like TFT is fuuuuull of those)

I think there’s some confusion about what “elitism” actually means. Pointing out obvious flaws in a broken system isn’t elitist, it’s just being honest.

You, me, and pretty much everyone else knows the carry culture has done more harm than good. And let’s be honest, it’s obvious why some still defend it. It’s not because it’s good for the game, but because without it, they’d struggle to do much of anything.

It’s time to move on. The game needs a better challenge system , encourage real growth, and bring back engaging. GGG has the tools, and honestly, they just need to stop holding back and let more of that “deal with it” energy show.

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

in the end thats why other modes exist for people with nothing else to do then playing poe

Well, at the end of the day, there are really only two actual modes in Standard (not standard league) and Ruthless. HC and SSF don’t fundamentally change the game. SSF exists mostly because people wanted a “midroll” mode for bragging rights, but let's be real self-imposed SSF was already a thing back in trade league before they introduced the mode.

Ruthless was added mainly because GGG wanted a way to test early PoE 2 concepts. Players originally asked for an old-school PoE mode, but Ruthless isn't even remotely what people had in mind. You can see that in how few people actually play the mode, it's basically an abomination compared to what was requested.

Hardcore exists pretty much because every other ARPG back when PoE launched had a HC mode. But even that hasn’t kept up, the game’s not really balanced around HC at all. The balance is focused around SC Trade. Just look at Last Epoch or even D3, they managed to offer multiple modes that are actually well-tuned across the board, without throwing in some artificial “grind more” wall to slow you down. But whatever, that's beside the point. GGG missed their shot a long time ago to make each mode shine on its own, or to at least find a solid middle ground that works for everyone.

Still, it’s not like it’s impossible or too late to improve things. A better challenge system or a simple rework could go a long way across all modes. Or maybe just something that puts everyone on equal footing, like removing carry runs entirely. Ruthless got its own challenge badges, so why haven’t HC and SSF gotten the same treatment? The technology clearly exists.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

You know what's true elitism though? Thinking its okay to force other players to play in a certain way just because you think paying for carries is somehow bad. When its a completely valid way to play this game(and many other games that have carry services too, just look at all the PoE 2 Ascendancy Sekhema carries where people pay 1 div to get all 8 points in 1 run LMAO like TFT is fuuuuull of those)

I think there’s some confusion about what “elitism” actually means. Pointing out obvious flaws in a broken system isn’t elitist, it’s just being honest.

You, me, and pretty much everyone else knows the carry culture has done more harm than good. And let’s be honest, it’s obvious why some still defend it. It’s not because it’s good for the game, but because without it, they’d struggle to do much of anything.

It’s time to move on. The game needs a better challenge system , encourage real growth, and bring back engaging. GGG has the tools, and honestly, they just need to stop holding back and let more of that “deal with it” energy show.

There's no confusion there, all this thread is trying to do is ruin other people's fun,completely valid way of playing the game. This is pure elitism and trying to boost your gamer ego. There are no problems with the challenge system, this is purely imaginary. What you're doing is saying "everyone should play the way I deem correct so that I can feel good". Not happening, ever. You know you can always just do self-imposed solo challenges right? Just like how people do other self-imposed limitations? There is no reason to drag everyone and the game down and make it unfun for tens of thousands. Also its not anyone else's problem that you refuse to play the actual difficult gamemodes that already exist lol, ssf,hc and ruthless were created specifically for the """hardcore arpg fans""".

People can play however they want, and its time to accept that and move on. It does not affect you, never has never will.

And the carry community,economy and culture in this game is really wholesome, you'd know this if you actually spent any time participating in it. People are really nice, they tip you currency even when you ask for nothing. Giving out free carries to 5 other people feels amazing.

Also PoE 2 exists too, go play that for the "real hardcore arpg experience". That's why it exists. Or you know, literally any of the other leagues available in PoE like SSF.

The most you're ever gonna get is special colored challenge number badges for HC and SSF just like Ruthless, they ain't got no time for other mtx I'm pretty sure, its clear when they just keep recycling boring armor set rewards. At most they could do a recolor of the same mtx, which I wouldn't really care about.

Literally stop trying to force your idea of "the correct way to play" upon all other players, its not nice. Just let them play however they want lmao

The solutions to these problems already exist.

Also literally who cares if people would/wouldn't be able to do certain things without a carry?? Why care so much about that? What is this weird competitiveness, literally just play the game how you want to, and everyone else does the same. And we're all happy. Someone paying X Divines for a carry does not affect you. Just like how I don't care that people play HC or SSF, its their choice and I'll never understand it. But that's fine because its none of my business how they enjoy the game.

Nobody wants to be forced to play the game in a certain way, this is why these gamemodes are a choice lmao, and what you're trying to do is force everyone to play in an unfun way because they "should" improve or something. No they shouldn't, they can play and have fun however they want. Just imagine if this game was HC only, it would never have grown to the player numbers it has today, and PoE 2 never would have been made.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nobody wants to be forced to play the game in a certain way, this is why these gamemodes are a choice lmao, and what you're trying to do is force everyone to play in an unfun way

I think you still don’t quite get the idea. This discussion isn’t about “nuking trade from orbit”, or turning SSF into the only valid game mode, far from it. That’s a strawman argument that misses the point entirely.

What this topic actually focuses on is reworking the challenge system and fixing long-standing oversights and exploits that have plagued multiple leagues. It’s about creating a fairer, more balanced experience for everyone, not about forcing a single playstyle onto the entire game.

When you say “nobody wants to be forced,” I think you’re really just expressing your personal opinion again. Because if “nobody” literally meant nobody, then why do so many players continue to return league after league, happily playing fresh starts exactly as GGG designs them? Yet here you are, returning as well, despite feeling “forced” to “play” the game the way GGG wants you to.
Quite the awkward contradiction, isn’t it?

What you’re trying to say, though you wrap it in many words, is a fear of missing out on rewards that might be out of reach without outside help. Still, you could play the game like almost everyone else does, and nothing fundamental would change for you. Unless, of course, your idea of “playing” means letting others do the heavy lifting while you just reap the benefits.

Maybe it’s time to look for other games if you don’t actually like playing the game yourself. But since you’re already “playing” under GGG’s so-called “forced” system, the way they want you to play, there really shouldn’t be much difference for you. Even if they remove the cheese, you’d still be playing the game exactly how GGG expects. After all, that’s the game you’ve been playing all along.