so, about that 3.25 melee rework - how to not kill melee entirely in few steps:

"
sidtherat wrote:
so, first of all - please, please, do not do a melee REWORK. chance you do it correctly the first time are nil (Call to Arms.. just ponder on it for a moment)

to the point.

what melee needs is numbers not gargantuan reworks. ReplicaAlberonSTRstacker dual strike is a great build. Dual Strike suddenly is fine as a skill but you cannot make it good without some weird gotcha scaling. phys weapons just cannot compete and are absurdly hard to craft at the same time (excluding graveprinting but that insanity will 1000% going to die next patch)

why Boneshatter is good? numbers. trauma support with Frosbreath? numbers. bleed is fine - but on a bow, because it deals tripple damage. numbers

so:

just add flat damage to ALL skills and increase ALL bases (the slow ones and 2handers - more). you had no problems doing that with bows (that didnt need it in the first place) i cannot see a valid reason to not do it here. if Voidforge is a problem - deal with Voidforge. it cannot hold entire archetype hostage.

that alone would do wonders. (less resources spent on damage -> more resources spent on fun stuff)

and then, the 'unf.. this' part (no particular order):

- unf.. the Seismic Cry. this gem is such a meme
- unf.. the Call to Arms. the gem was a net loss to melee and net buff to everyone else. please, take this seriously. you wont 'fix' melee if you pretend it is otherwise.
- unf.. the melee supports. in particular: Fist of War (+make its cooldown modifiable!), Brutality, BloodLust, Damage on Full Life
- unf.. the Fortify. big change: bake it into all melee skills with very short duration + change passives to provide increased duration. cannot be (cheaply) abused by casters/CoCS, solves Fortify problems for melee. it should be ALMOST free to get and use for a melee build. several passives or a garbage support is NOT free!
- unf.. the Gladiator. give him the spell block back. it STILL wont make it compete with Necromancers (they have 75/75 block anyway, lol) but it would at least make it a class you pick for SOMETHING (like Pious Path on Inquisitor)


now the small buffs:

- warcries. the paper stuff they give is already meh but most players do not know that most of the time warcries give them nothing. the duration on them is VERY short and the bonus they give in real scenario is rarely 30% of the potential maximum. also the warcry passives are very, very point inefficient. condense the passives by 1/3, increase base warcry buff duration by 50%

- exerted %damage. way, way too low. maybe make these values scalable with Warcry Buff Effect or something? right now 20% is not enough to build around. %increase in general is a weak stat

- stun. melee's alternative to freeze. but unlike freeze it is expensive to get and fails when most needed. it is one of the very few systems with caps: hard cap on boss stun and soft-cap on stun threshold reduction. freeze has neither. why? perma freezing is cool but stunning is not? why?

- stun. stun should prevent stuff like essences from casting spells. currently it doesnt so it is actually pointless because nobody cares if it moves, it is all about the novas of death. stunned essences are fully operational for some dumb reason

- ancestral totems. if they are mandatory (and I wish they stay as i know any rework will end with net nerf) they should have a fading % damage reduction after spawning - or be outright Mirage Archers, aka untouchable. 50% damage down the drain because boss area is one giant degen puddle? great

- melee reservations. currently baseline melee reservation (herald, b&s, f&s etc) give ~9-12% more damage. and most players try to get all of them (to shore up damage). make it ~15% so we can keep the same damage and have some spare sockets for once

- fix that damn Leap Slam bug!

- warcries. Leap Slam should not use exerts/proc Tawhoa's Chosen. Leap Slam doing so is sole reason why both feel like shit. revert the mastery, if you insist keep if for Trans Leap Slam that actually is made to deal damage.

- nova spells on mobs should NOT shotgun, under no circumstances.

- add 'movement speed' and some form of ailment protection to bottom-left part of the tree. there is nothing. and no, getting +max res is not equivalent (esp when +max res is the WEAKEST of all form of defences nowadays)

- add +LGOH and FLAT regen to bottom-left part of the tree. add them to EXISTING passives. no need to create passive bloat

- fix/remove some terribad clusters: Inexorable, Cauterisation (the notable is 100% garbage), Fending (knocback is good, this cluster isnt), Dance of Blades, Assured Strike and all the block stuff around Versatile Combatant


i sure would like to see an actuall high effort and successful melee rework but after literal string of collateral nerfs melee got i do not believe it is possible

so just fix easy stuff. numbers++ do work. you use numbers-- to nerf stuff, right?



and the big stuff:


- Determination and Grace. are utter disgrace. getting AR/EV on items feel pointless. have no idea what to do with it but it is very wrong that people pick 'phys taken as fire' over T1 AR roll on an AR chest. these two auras are MANDATORY to reach AR/EV values that make an impact. this is very wrong.

- Spell Suppression. cheeze, lazy stat introduced to make certain endgame parts doable. since most end-endgame spells have penetration, +max res is mostly pointless, suppression covers it all. lower the respectable pen AND/OR lower the damage output + reduce suppression base reduction from 50 to 30%. 'if something is mandatory, look at it' - suppression is busted strong and everyone who can - maxes it. it is unhealthy and limits design space


It's pretty insane how bad all these suggestions are lol. I mean, getting flat damage on skills might be a way to add scaling to gem levels, which is about the only thing you said that here that makes sense. You like the quadra dipping str, battlemage, warpath meme. I get it's the only way melee is vialbe right now outside of smite builds, but terrible for the game lol.

You want free 30% dr for melee skills with fort changes... Call to Arms is great and you're just using it wrong. Which is hard to believe cus ur a battlemage str stacking abuser lol.

Truth is, most things that feel pointless in this game are that way because you don't know how to play. There are entire builds around zdps weapons that use aura stacking w/ deter/grace/smite to build their entire characters, and thats much better than you x10 dipping on timeless warcry effect, str stacking, and Iron Will. Go play Call to Arms + General's Cry.
I don't really know if you can call someone out for abusing when its one of the few ways it makes sense to build a melee character.

I think all the people defending the state of melee need to do it with a pob.

If its so great give us the pobs. I want something to play.

My problem is, i want to play phys impale berserker. even if i wanted to saviour is unobtainable in hc. As sadly all of the good unique weapons outside of paradoxica. Everyone is unveiling chaos pen right now too so its really hard to get a phys/impale.

One of the issues is, it doesn't make sense to play melee so all the people that are smart enough to use crazy tech in builds arent wasting their time with melee. If they are playing melee theyre using replica alberons.
"
OverlyAggro wrote:

Truth is, most things that feel pointless in this game are that way because you don't know how to play. There are entire builds around zdps weapons that use aura stacking w/ deter/grace/smite to build their entire characters, and thats much better than you x10 dipping on timeless warcry effect, str stacking, and Iron Will. Go play Call to Arms + General's Cry.


should i understand that you just found out about (replica) dreamfeather and are making a fuss about it? are you for real?

oh and you imply that using smite (or any other source of significant flat damage) is revolutionary? before call to arms we did that on the LMB :) recent patch just simply took one link from any General's Cry setup and reduced CD in failed attempt to compensate


dont want to be 'that guy' but i have some news: these builds are 2+ years old and unless you get Grasping Mail with correct overcapped res mod - you are not even doing it properly
"
Lonnie455Rich wrote:
I don't really know if you can call someone out for abusing when its one of the few ways it makes sense to build a melee character.

I think all the people defending the state of melee need to do it with a pob.

If its so great give us the pobs. I want something to play.

My problem is, i want to play phys impale berserker. even if i wanted to saviour is unobtainable in hc. As sadly all of the good unique weapons outside of paradoxica. Everyone is unveiling chaos pen right now too so its really hard to get a phys/impale.

One of the issues is, it doesn't make sense to play melee so all the people that are smart enough to use crazy tech in builds arent wasting their time with melee. If they are playing melee theyre using replica alberons.

Whoa there, writing phys impale berserker and hc in same sentence.

Let me try that:
Two handed mace, Assassin, 300% inc poison damage on non poisoned enemies stacking on clusters/megalomaniacs, Crit.

Whoops, that's busted af build for few div can uber.

Wait let me try again.
Elementalist golemmancer, stacking golems and golem effect on clusters/megalomaniacs can insert ANY melee skill.

This is hard, how did you come up with such a bad build concept, maybe MAKE BETTER BUILD!
All my energy goes to farm DW Daggers! BUFF MELEE!!1!1
"
tw3tye wrote:
"
Lonnie455Rich wrote:
I don't really know if you can call someone out for abusing when its one of the few ways it makes sense to build a melee character.

I think all the people defending the state of melee need to do it with a pob.

If its so great give us the pobs. I want something to play.

My problem is, i want to play phys impale berserker. even if i wanted to saviour is unobtainable in hc. As sadly all of the good unique weapons outside of paradoxica. Everyone is unveiling chaos pen right now too so its really hard to get a phys/impale.

One of the issues is, it doesn't make sense to play melee so all the people that are smart enough to use crazy tech in builds arent wasting their time with melee. If they are playing melee theyre using replica alberons.

Whoa there, writing phys impale berserker and hc in same sentence.

Let me try that:
Two handed mace, Assassin, 300% inc poison damage on non poisoned enemies stacking on clusters/megalomaniacs, Crit.

Whoops, that's busted af build for few div can uber.

Wait let me try again.
Elementalist golemmancer, stacking golems and golem effect on clusters/megalomaniacs can insert ANY melee skill.

This is hard, how did you come up with such a bad build concept, maybe MAKE BETTER BUILD!


I don't understand what you're getting at.
I would just like to enjoy a pure phys melee build that does not require conversion because I really hate how melee has been so strongly linked with elemental and chaos damage in this game.
"
DreadofExile wrote:
I would just like to enjoy a pure phys melee build that does not require conversion because I really hate how melee has been so strongly linked with elemental and chaos damage in this game.


Doing this without being a glass cannon as well.
"
Lonnie455Rich wrote:
"
DreadofExile wrote:
I would just like to enjoy a pure phys melee build that does not require conversion because I really hate how melee has been so strongly linked with elemental and chaos damage in this game.


Doing this without being a glass cannon as well.


I might add doing this with additional scaling vectors. Currently its not enough, conversion or flat elemental/flat chaos damage reigns supreme with superior scaling possibilities.

Impale does not cut it.
Last edited by zzang#1847 on Jun 16, 2024, 1:24:16 PM
I have thought a lot about physical ailments recently and boy do they suck.

Melee builds can have easy access to bleed, stun, crush, impale. Too bad they all suck.

Let's look.

Bleed is a much much much worse ignite and poison. Can be good but needs a rebalance. Bow build builds aren't strictly better, but just much smoother to play.

Stun. Useless. Investing into stun really lowers your dps. Meanwhile freeze is easy and free comparatively. The opportunity cost is too high. ( a theme here) just compare what it takes to stun the minotaur versus freezing it. We are talking like 2-3 cluster setups versus 2 5 point passive wheels and crit. Maybe an exaggeration but not really.

Crush. Hey its free damage, kind of, but the easiest way to get it is to use maces which is a huge dps nerf. Mace nodes are less good, axes are just better in every eay. At the point where crush is a buff enemy physical resistance is near zero anyway because of the incidental physical damage reduction overwhelm on the tree.

Impale. Hey its also free damage, can be easy to get. It does next to nothing. It scales worse with attack speed. Imagine if impale was just enemy takes 20-30% more phys damage.

It is sad that +1curse and skitterbots are better than all of these things combined. Honestly ggg failed melee here and buffing these would go a long way to "fixing" the problem.

Like imagine a unique jewel that converts stun to impale. Or what of they let enemy physical resistance go below zero. So many ways to make these work.
People have been expecting a melee buff for how many years now?
I think it's time we stop the melee hopium, it won't happen, you can see how much they are investing into the game when every league is almost the same options, 4 month league with poor performance and a bad league mechanic+ no events, league is theoritically dead at 2 months but GGG hasnt got enough devs to work on a fucking event that they can just copy paste and add a litle bit of new code, add some kind of cool mechanic like they added on the chinese server which is you steal one buff from rare monsters, but naaah gotta add that 200$ supporter pack, mtx get more love than leagues do lmao

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