[3.25] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Kelvynn wrote:

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santjohn wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

And even more fun: the crit version doesn't need a Megalomaniac! Because of the extra crit mod on Emperor's Wit. Saving 3 points and investing them elsewhere results in the same damage as the ultra-rare CttC/BS Megalo and more ES.

https://pobb.in/MBxH92_pK5kO

The crit version looks sexier by the minute!

will we use botteled faith?

vessel of vinktar looks cool too coz of shock what we can apply

I don't have the flasks checked in my high level PoB's because you can't rely on having the charges for the uber pinnacle bosses. So the flasks are still whatever you feel like.

I do like the little trick with lv 1 Precision and Watcher's Eye. But I'm not sure how well that works. It says that you gain 'a flask charge' on crit - is that 1 single charge to a random flask, or to every flask? Also, getting that plus the other mods may be problematic.

Vinktar/Shock is not a lot of extra damage, it's additive with Unnerve, Punishment and Aspect.

i think to all flasks

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whiterockxx wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

Are you giving up on cluster jewels completely?

I dont. I'll use this tree until have all jewels to make a good transition, probably around lvl 90-92 where items start to appear on market. I'm still working on the High-Budget tree (clusters/splits/Forbiddens).

Below is my low budget tree at lvl 84:

https://poeplanner.com/b/DoH

If you check my SSF character atest_VI will see he is with almost same tree, its doing T12 corrupted maps with no problems at all, it took me around 13-15 hours from the beach A1 until this point, T12, on SSF, without any item or currency assist from the stash.

On the trade league, at this point would robably alerdy using WI and alerdy respected into CI with a way beyond progression!

The problem I see with your approach is that you spend a whole lot of points to grab all kinds of masteries that add very little value other than Polymath stacks. Simply grabbing more Int should be about the same or higher damage, plus definitely higher ES.

And once you can afford even 1 cluster - all those extra masteries become severely inferior to the main version's pathing. Then why bother?

Can any one share best leveling strategy for 3.21? Which skill+support gems to use in each act, step by step, till act 4 (or end of 3 where we switch to WI)?

I tried this one:
1. start with stormblast mine + added cold damage + added lightning damage. Use orb of storms with same support gems.
2. switch to icicle mine after Merveil cave with same support gems. Switch orb of storm to frost bomb.

Use clarity/arctic armor(switch to purity of elements)/frostbite when they become available.

But i wonder if there is better strategy?

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dimuls wrote:

Can any one share best leveling strategy for 3.21? Which skill+support gems to use in each act, step by step, till act 4 (or end of 3 where we switch to WI)?

I tried this one:
1. start with stormblast mine + added cold damage + added lightning damage. Use orb of storms with same support gems.
2. switch to icicle mine after Merveil cave with same support gems. Switch orb of storm to frost bomb.

Use clarity/arctic armor(switch to purity of elements)/frostbite when they become available.

But i wonder if there is better strategy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IInQFreeY this one is ok

swap 75+ lvl

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Kelvynn wrote:

PoB has been updated for 3.21, although not fully. For example, it still shows Arcane Surge with the pre-nerf effects. Waiting for them to update it fully.

In the meantime, I checked out what happens to the main (non-crit) version with the new changes. I took the Hatred version PoB and applied the following changes:
- replaced Arcane Surge with Energy Leech;
- removed Ghost Reaver;
- changed Ethereal Feast to the shorter path and took the 10% instant leech;
- removed Enigmatic Defense (since the 1/16 Int/Dmg mod is gone);
- replaced Mystic Bulwark with Dreamer for Mana Mastery and took the 12% MRE;
- took the new Glacial Cage cluster and cold exposure on hit and removed PWoC;
- spent 3 points on Elemental Overload since there is no more relic;
- spent the last 3 skill points on Holy Dominion/Light of Divinity.

https://pobb.in/eY6wx3rlHEOb

The results:
- 3.20: avg hit vs a low life boss: 1243k
- 3.21: avg hit vs a low life boss: 1485k

That's 19.5% more damage. Without losing any tankiness (which may be a total overkill with the new leech).

The crit version lost 25.3% damage according to Whiterockxx? While being a glass cannon. Hmm... Is it actually worth the pain? Still gonna think on that before the release. I like some of Vahkerr's ideas too. Maybe there is a good combination somewhere...

Regardless, the main non-crit version is more awesome than ever.

Is there specific reason why you're taking Dreamer instead of Deep thoughts? Pathing to Deep Thoughts gives 30 int for the same amount of points spent, and we only lose Mana Regen/Reduced Mana Costs which can be covered with a lvl 1 Arcane Surge.

I think keeping Enigmatic Defense, and removing Nimbleness instead is also very slightly more damage and a bit more defense.

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Kelvynn wrote:

I don't have the flasks checked in my high level PoB's because you can't rely on having the charges for the uber pinnacle bosses. So the flasks are still whatever you feel like.

I do like the little trick with lv 1 Precision and Watcher's Eye. But I'm not sure how well that works. It says that you gain 'a flask charge' on crit - is that 1 single charge to a random flask, or to every flask? Also, getting that plus the other mods may be problematic.

Vinktar/Shock is not a lot of extra damage, it's additive with Unnerve, Punishment and Aspect.

I'm not a huge fan of Bottled Faith either. The boss has to stay on the effect ground. Most of the ones that matter just won't do that for long. And then you have to get to the boss again and hit that flask again. It's a very part-time thing.

@Kelvynn

So my experience with the flask regeneration via precision is if you're at 100% crit chance you're going to be very close to full uptime as long as you're doing damage. If you're namelocked casting icestorm you're generally good. Gaps will come when you're not doing damage due to phases etc, but the benefit is worth it IMO if you have a free gem slot.

Speaking of free gem slots, I noticed you have a culling strike support for ball lightning in the crit build you posted, which I think you should be able to drop because you gain culling strike to all crit strikes with ambush and assassinate.

The point about righteous faith generating consecrated ground on bosses is definitely valid, and not something I really considered. You can potentially get a WE mod that lets the effects consecrated ground linger for 2 seconds which mitigates it to an extent, but it is going to be hit or miss for sure.

I think you make a really solid case for hatred. The potential implicit boost and the pen mod are a compelling combo. I didn't experiment with it much at all last league, despite getting a solid megalo with the CtC, the mana res mod for Hatred (and unspeakeable gifts). I vaguely remember some of the hatred mod WE being pretty pricy which I think was part of it, but I also played later in the league.

One other idea I posted was if we take assassin's mark as the second curse is that it seems like pathing to get the mark mastery cluster would be worthwhile. The new location is much closer to where we path normally. That 12% more damage via frenzy charges from the mastery alone seems solid, and there are other solid alternates too. In the old tree it was too far away, but it offers some nice stuff.

I'm not able to mess around with PoB today due to family stuff, but I wonder if there is something to drop in the tree where the trade off for what we gain there would be worth it.

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Kelvynn wrote:

The problem I see with your approach is that you spend a whole lot of points to grab all kinds of masteries that add very little value other than Polymath stacks. Simply grabbing more Int should be about the same or higher damage, plus definitely higher ES.

And once you can afford even 1 cluster - all those extra masteries become severely inferior to the main version's pathing. Then why bother?

This is just a temporary tree, that can help the atlas progression without any cost, and keep your currency for large investments like forbidden jewels, the watcher's eye and syntesis bases, wich on the early days of the league are way cheaper.

You dont have to waste time looking for items early on, you just go... progress, get voidstones, then with enought progression and currency you buy what you need! Every minute you stay in town on Alt-Tab staring at the trade site you are losing currency, and the divine price/inflation keeps rising.

You must keep the progress, set the trade search on few tabs of the web browser with sound notification. Once it bings you take a look... dont waste time dating the trade site :D.. This is the golden rule for a nice league start.

Ex. on day 1 you can buy a %int synth implict base for 1 div, 2-3 days after, this price goes to 3-5.
Its much cheaper to buy some items on the first weekend of the league.

And for SSF, this is the tree to go, since you cannot expect have any jewels soon!

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whiterockxx wrote:

Every minute you stay in town on Alt-Tab staring at the trade site you are losing currency, and the divine price/inflation keeps rising.

This build is not good for racing. If you play it you don't worry about saving minutes.

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And for SSF, this is the tree to go, since you cannot expect have any jewels soon!

Are you going to play in SSF? Fertile Mind and Brute Force jewels are common as dirt even on day 1. But for SSF I can understand.

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Kelvynn wrote:

This build is not good for racing. If you play it you don't worry about saving minutes.

Are you going to play in SSF? Fertile Mind and Brute Force jewels are common as dirt even on day 1. But for SSF I can understand.

Is not about race, is about to be able to afford buy an item or dont, when it shows up on trade. After few days, market flippers rule the market and a casual player may not afford buy an item anymore after the inflation. The first weekend is all they have to be a great or bad start.
I was just giving tips for who dont want to be all league unable to do game content because have no currency buy things. And the build is expensive and slow on farm.

Ex. Every league i pay 1 div on the Emperor's Wit, 1 week later its about to 5-8 divs. Every league i pay about 1 div for a ilvl 83+ +6% INT synth base ring, 2-3 days later its about 5-7 divs or more.

At Sanctum this was the cost of my day 6 gear:

Forbidden flame = 2div
Forbidden flesh = 3div
Militant faith = 2div
7% int base ring = 1div each
13%+ int amulet base = 1div
Hunter exalted for helm craft = 2div
Chest base with t1 hybrid fractured = 30c
Helm with enchant = 50c
13%+ int belt base = 70c
Stampede = 30c
2x golden oil = 60c
Total 12div + 300c + Essences of Spite used on craft (That was cheaper at start, because everyone is farming them and nobody using!).

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/whiterockxx/White_Sanctum?i=0&search=item%3DThe-Whispering-Ice&time-machine=day-6

Was enought to do all ubers at day 6, sell boss services and more to improve even more the gear and turn things easer.

And I took so long because I wasn't doing WI, I was doing a spark build but I didn't like it and on the 3rd I decided to change and I didn't have any items until then. For Crucible I already set my goal, day 3 lvl 95+ with almost all items.

As you can see, only the craft cost of the amulet alone of your final setup must exceed this value. And this character was capable of do all the content that your made or probably more, faster and cheaper. I dont blame you, everyone should know what path like and follow. It's a game to have fun and be played on your own way.

My concept here is to give to everyone a good game experience with an affordable budget. Its not n min-maxed setup, just a optimized and affordable one for first days of the league.

I dont play SSF, my tests was made on it. I just mentioned it because WinterHiko (if i'm not wrong) says he go, and i hope this tree can help him.

You can say... That Chayula's Flawless Breachstone clear didn't impress you xD
Have you ever tryed it with the block version? (they are much profitable, that run on the last video gave me 32div)

@whiterockx -- a couple of minor questions. I can imagine having 300c after day 3, but not 300c and 12 div. Where is that currency coming from, especially since you're spending all of your in-game time hitting level 90+?

First three days respec orbs are expensive (and you'll need a bunch to play WI), essences are cheap, heist jewels don't sell for much, forbidden jewels are hard to find, stampedes are 70c+ (in Sanctum they were.) Other prices are roughly as you stated.

Basically, if I don't find a couple of divines early to jump start some trades, I am hosed -- the exponential currency growth doesn't happen soon enough and I never end up being able to afford the wit or the %int rings. (Historically, I have purchased these only due to lucky drops that sold for lots of divines.)

Basically all of my chaos recipe chaos goes for gear upgrades from T1 to T11 red maps. I'm usually at 7k ES, 1800 int, two 18% 6S staves by then (and a stampede + tranq), and then it's the hunter helm next, and lots of crafting.

Maybe I should just collect chaos and not spend any for two days...

back to work on the book.