[3.21] Aegis Incinerate Elementalist - Tank with over 10mil Shaper DPS!

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

Great job, Andy and Clay!

I'm happy to report I've found some optimizations, see if you guys can see if I made any mistakes:
Replace inspiration with arcane surge (removed the custom modifier)
Remove aspect of spider
Add back defiance banner (overkill by this point. Vitality is another option to counter degens. If you don't use either you can actually use something besides uncompromising)
Change enlighten 4 to 3

https://pobb.in/EWrtgi2zxGLq

PS: One thing I'm not sure is configured correctly. You have both "full ES" and "leeching ES" ticked. We don't have trickster ES overleech so I think it's one or the other.

PPS: We have so much tankiness and DPS that I would prioritize corrupted blood immunity over other stats on the jewel. On some encounters (Sirius? Delirium?) there's a lot of corrupted blood.

PPPS: You have +1 max endurance charge but I'm not sure where we are getting it. Maybe if we don't use uncompromising you can use enduring composure instead.

Thanks for the feedback, Puppy!! Here are some comments

1) Inspiration is required for the build as we can't sustain channeling Incinerate without it. In your POB, you use 127 mana per second but only recover 110 mana per second. We will run out of mana very quickly without Inspiration especially when our other skills proc and take a large chunk of our mana.

2) Defiance Banner was gutted in 3.19. I am not sure it is really worth the 10% mana anymore. But certainly, is up to the player if you wish to include it. IMO, Aspect of Spider is significantly stronger as it provides both offense and defense. I think we can all squeeze in whatever best works/fits as we get access to various levels of Enlighten.

3) I agree with you about the ES config. I think we should likely only have ES leech checked off. I will remove that config for full ES (do you agree @Claeysken or did you find that you were on full ES often enough to have that configured?). It should be one or the other as Puppy correctly indicated, I think. I just don't know which one (probably doesn't make a great deal of difference I guess). I think I am going to leave it on ES leech since I figure with Glancing Blows we are constantly taking damage.

4) I am not sure I understand the question. Are you asking where we are getting Endurance Charges from? If so, we get them from the boot anoint of Inexorable which provides an Endurance charge every time we get hit (which includes every time we block). These 4 Endurance charges help us against Corrupted Blood as well when they are active.

#1 - I forgot about our procced skills. I figured with a deficit of 17 mana we can go like 15 seconds before running dry. I think Reckoning is 0 mana right, so the only thing that costs mana is CWDT/cold snap, which is 26 mana per proc. Maybe we can bump up the CWDT level or put a lifetap on it.

#3 - I dont know which is correct. I first thought like you said we are always taking damage, so we should be "not full" at least regularly, but with leech and aegis we are often full again so not sure which on the average is more correct. If we are on full then it's a dismal 15% damage. Maybe use inspiration instead of energy leech for a "split the difference" approach. If that's the case then the mana problem in #1 is solved.

#4 - I forgot about Inexorable

PS: Maybe for #3 I'm not actually correct and you can set both. Maybe you are leeching and creating leech instances, but they get deleted because you are full ES. I dont know but I dont think so - why would the gem specify both conditions then.

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

#1 - I forgot about our procced skills. I figured with a deficit of 17 mana we can go like 15 seconds before running dry. I think Reckoning is 0 mana right, so the only thing that costs mana is CWDT/cold snap, which is 26 mana per proc. Maybe we can bump up the CWDT level or put a lifetap on it.

#3 - I dont know which is correct. I first thought like you said we are always taking damage, so we should be "not full" at least regularly, but with leech and aegis we are often full again so not sure which on the average is more correct. If we are on full then it's a dismal 15% damage. Maybe use inspiration there instead for a "split the difference" approach. If that's the case then the mana problem in #1 is solved.

#4 - I forgot about Inexorable

1) Reckoning by itself costs 0 mana, but when reckoning procs, it also procs hextouch, which then does cost mana to apply the curse. We also use a movement skill which costs mana. Molten Shell also costs mana.

3) interesting. I am not near POB right now but I will play with this tomorrow. If we use Arcane Surge in place of ES leech, should we replace the Arcane Adept in the large cluster jewel?

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

PS: Maybe for #3 I'm not actually correct and you can set both. Maybe you are leeching and creating leech instances, but they get deleted because you are full ES. I dont know but I dont think so - why would the gem specify both conditions then.

I think you were correct. I googled this and the answer was consistently you get one or the other, not both. Leeching ends when ES fills.

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

If we use Arcane Surge in place of ES leech, should we replace the Arcane Adept in the large cluster jewel?

Well it's still 4.3% dps so it's fine to keep it

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

If we use Arcane Surge in place of ES leech, should we replace the Arcane Adept in the large cluster jewel?

Well it's still 4.3% dps so it's fine to keep it

I am confused by the interaction of Arcane Surge from the cluster and arcane surge from the support gem.

These don't stack from my understanding. Only the highest is used if they are both active

The arcane surge from cluster starts after 1 second of channeling and provides 10% more spell damage and lasts 4 seconds, after which you need to stop and restart channeling to gain it again.

The arcane surge from the level 20 support gem procs after 400 mana is spent on Incinrate (this takes almost 7 seconds of casting.....we almost never cast that long unless against big single target).....and then an arcane surge of 20% more damage is applied.

The 7 seconds of constant casting bugs me...am I misunderstanding this? If we cast for 3 seconds and stop, does the 400 mana counter go back to 0?

I think I need to better understand the uptime of Arcane surge using the combo of the cluster and support gem to see if it is better than ES leech....

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

3) I agree with you about the ES config. I think we should likely only have ES leech checked off. I will remove that config for full ES (do you agree @Claeysken or did you find that you were on full ES often enough to have that configured?). It should be one or the other as Puppy correctly indicated, I think. I just don't know which one (probably doesn't make a great deal of difference I guess). I think I am going to leave it on ES leech since I figure with Glancing Blows we are constantly taking damage.

You are correct with this, the Leech and Full ES won't be happing at the same time, sorry about that!

Maybe more accurate to move this build into Witch instead of Templar ?

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Mscyril21 wrote:

Maybe more accurate to move this build into Witch instead of Templar ?

While you are correct in your question we are not going to move this build :) The build has been going on for many leagues. Started as an inquisitor, then witch was best, then witch/templars were good, now it's back to a witch.

The core of the build is basically being a super tanky incinerate build, and a lot of good history and theorycrafting in these threads, so why bother moving.

Andy I saw the replies to your reddit post asking about arcane surge procs.

So I guess it works like this:
- Channel for 1 second, the cluster one procs.
- Channel for another second, the cluster one procs again, refreshing the duration.
- So on until the main link procs, the cluster one still in the background, but the main link arcane surge takes priority since it is higher level.

I did not consider about the time it takes to proc the main link, although your math seems correct. I guess when I did this leagues back I either did not notice AS going down, AS being proced by the cluster, or it feels like it came back fast because I already had "mana used stored" from previous castings.

So I think both energy leech and arcane surge has a bit of POB misinformation going on, where the shown DPS is not accurate to IRL DPS.

Another gem to consider is concentrated effect. Now that we are back to an elementalist and have the 60% AOE, it will feel fine.