Snapshotting

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Have you not found the zombie life bonus from the item significant in your play?

Using this calculator: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/860989 , would appreciate if you look at the formulas and see if it gets something wrong.

Minions die very rarely, if one is using necro Aegis with block + spell block and Offering that gives block. So 500 life is nothing, if minions block most of the damage, and when they're damaged - it's leeched back.

Also 9 zombies over 4 results in a bigger meatshield, which is, I'd argue, a better choice over 500 HP.

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Bada_Bing wrote:

While i'm ok with removing snapshotting mechanics i think GGG overreaches by also removing trap and mine support. Without those gems one can hardly come up with a generic gem setup for spectres as only minion life + damage fits all spectre types. One is therefore forced to socket a specific gem setup for a specific spectre type (for example using concentrated effect for BMs or GMP for titty bitches). The unwanted effect is that, by removing snapshotting and making a 5L generic gem setup unavailable, one has to leave a map once one spectre dies and revisit a place where that spectre type is available: Once commited to a BM setup with conc.effect for example, desecreate becomes useless in a BM free map.
Both "nerfs" combined won't lead to a "better game" as Mark is hoping, but will make summoner gameplay even more tedious.

The minions will still benefit from the X% more damage. Just not from the Mine and Trap Passives on the tree or from gear.

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Sneakypaw wrote:

The minions will still benefit from the X% more damage. Just not from the Mine and Trap Passives on the tree or from gear.

Trap/mine-summoned minions already currently don't benefit from mine/trap damage passives.

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Wraeclastian wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

This article was written by me, Nick and Brian.[/b]

This article was written by Nick, Brian, and I.

Spoiler

Haha, nothing is worse that declaring yourself "grammar police", and then totally getting it wrong. The statement "This article was written by me, Nick, and Brian" is absolutely correct. All you have to do is remove Nick and Brian" from the sentence to see that this is so.

Which sounds right to you?

"This article was written by me"?

or

"This article was written by I"?

I have a question about the weapon switch thing.
Mark says weapons and gear in un-active position (ie. weapon switch) doesn´t give the items bonuses but gems do get experience.

Now, I have that gem that makes other gems level faster if linked to it.
Will this work in un-active position?
Or will the gems only receive normal experience?

I hope it works, as there is no way any build have many extra gem slots that can be used for leveling gems.
Especially as you (GGG) make nerfs after nerfs, and very soon it will be totally impossible to do late endgame stuff unless you have all the rarest, most expensive uniques and gear witch you also make totally impossible to find.
It´s more probability i win the 10 million lottery than finding one of these items needed.

Sad, it´s all i can say...

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Sneakypaw wrote:

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Bada_Bing wrote:

While i'm ok with removing snapshotting mechanics i think GGG overreaches by also removing trap and mine support. Without those gems one can hardly come up with a generic gem setup for spectres as only minion life + damage fits all spectre types. One is therefore forced to socket a specific gem setup for a specific spectre type (for example using concentrated effect for BMs or GMP for titty bitches). The unwanted effect is that, by removing snapshotting and making a 5L generic gem setup unavailable, one has to leave a map once one spectre dies and revisit a place where that spectre type is available: Once commited to a BM setup with conc.effect for example, desecreate becomes useless in a BM free map.
Both "nerfs" combined won't lead to a "better game" as Mark is hoping, but will make summoner gameplay even more tedious.

The minions will still benefit from the X% more damage. Just not from the Mine and Trap Passives on the tree or from gear.

If i understand Mark_GGG right, that won't be the case:

"There's some good feedback in your post that I'm sure some of the balance team will take into consideration, but I'd like to address this bit here and now. It's nothing to do with snapshotting specifically, so isn't part of this change, but 1.2.0 will also be changing "mine damage", "trap damage" and "totem damage" to explicitly mean damage dealt directly by a trap, totem or mine.
This means that if you place a mine that throws a trap that shoots a fireball, the fireball came from a trap and gets trap damage modifiers, but not mine damage modifiers. It came from the trap, not the mine.
Similarly, If you throw a trap or place a mine that summons a minion, and that minion uses an attack (or spell), then that attack or spell didn't come from a trap or mine and is not "trap damage" or "mine damage" so will not be affected by modifiers to either.

Just as with the snapshotting change, the balance team will also be keeping this change in mind when re-examining minions for 1.2.0."

That would render trap/mine as minion support completly useless.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

The changes mean a cleaner, more sensible experience, with more avenues for interesting skills and itemization. In the long run, even those who regularly used snapshotting will benefit. They will no longer feel obligated to spend many tedious minutes setting up a snapshot, for fear of not maximizing their character's potential.

Curious, will you guys ever be adopting a similar mindset with trade? I'm all for fixing snapshot, but your reasoning for doing so is very close the to the reason I absolutely detest trade in this game. No one wins from forcing tedium, nor a non-sensible experience.

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robmafia wrote:

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Xasrai wrote:

This is simply not true. The utility gained for a summoner by being able to swap out those support gems gives them both offensive and defensive capabilities that NO OTHER BUILD has access to.

*facepalm*

4 offensive spectres = 4 offensive spectres
4 defensive spectres = 4 defensive spectres
4 utility spectres = 4 utility spectres


get it?

2 offensive, 1 defensive, and 1 utility = 4 spectres. holy shit, 2+1+1 stillequals 4!

you act as if 4 magically becomes >4, if someone chooses to diversify them.

you're wrong. THERE'S NO NET GAIN. LEARN WHAT YOUR OWN KEYWORDS MEAN.

2 defensive and 2 offensive lacks the killing speed of 4 offensive and lacks the tankiness of 4 defensive. it's not magically better, just because you ignorantly think so.

you said it's a "net gain." and then you failed to ever support this claim, while vehemently arguing it.

After reading all 28 pages, Thanks for getting rid of snapshotting. Its honestly about time.

As for this guy "robmafia" who is apparently the most passionate summoner on the forum.

I can see where he is coming from with the quoted text.

"2 offensive, 1 defensive, and 1 utility = 4 spectres. holy shit, 2+1+1 stillequals 4!"

Congratulations you achieved level 1 math, Lets take a look at some level 2 math:

You have one 6-link chest or two-handed weapon to socket your raise spectre gem in, you summon your first 2 spectres (offensive) 5 support gems used, you then switch 3 of these support gems for 3 different support gems for your defensive spectre, then another 2 swapped for your utility spectre. That's 5+3+2=10 support gems used + raise spectre meaning you essentially have an 11 link chest. Because whilst you have all these spectres you are gaining the effects of all the support gems you have used. Yes it is more fun for you, yes it clearly gives you an advantage. Which is why i for one am glad to see the back of snapshotting.

\o/

without trap/mine support damage buff all spellcaster spectres is pretty weak
same as all melee attackers, right now they just a garbage
keep a great work GGG

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Other than that: I really like this change and looking forward to it.
Was planing on making a RF-char but planned from the beginning to not use snapshotting on it.

Yeah dude, you will FAIL HARD! GL on that its not possible to do a RF with good amount of dmg + survivability without snapshotting lol!