GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

If pay leagues ever get implemented, some super awesome guild should just make a SFL and make it public. People would love them for that.

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Arrowneous wrote:

1000s of hours to work for great gearing in definitely too long of a time requirement. I don't harken back for the original D3 formulas of 100s of hours of crap loot to get a legendary of good quality to drop. That spelled disaster for Blizzard and same is true for PoE. That having been said we also don't want a rain of high quality loot too fast or we get BiS gear too soon and than there's nothing left to farm for. Right now PoE is too far toward the D3 side of quality loot and orb drops for most and a moderate shift toward the RoS or TL2 side would be an improvement and go a long way to ease frustrations and burnout and "I quit" syndrome.

You're not getting it.

The problem with D3 was not that, after hundreds of hours of farming crap, a unique of quality would finally drop. It was that uniques of quality never dropped, because the game did not contain uniques of quality, just shitty ones.

Good item design in an ARPG is like good card design in Magic the Gathering. It is vital to provide options to enhance builds in creative ways. It is not okay to make collectible objects boring, disconnected from your build's theme, or strictly superior/inferior to everything else you could have in slot. Even if you have a full set of everything which exists in the game, and currency literally is no object, deciding what to use should not be an easy choice.

D3 took this concept of interesting itemization and threw it completely out the window. Comparing items always reveals one being strictly superior to the other, rather than a contest between peers with pros and cons to either choice. It's 99.99% a pure numbers game.

I am not going to say that PoE has none of these problems itself. However, making it so you get 20 or even 30 cards per Magic the Gathering booster pack isn't going to make the game even one bit better. It's the items themselves which determine whether players have incentive to collect them.

Changing drop rates doesn't fix a thing. It is okay to make certain items rare, perhaps even absurdly rare... as long as they're sufficiently interesting. Refining unique design and how rare affixes work is what ensures farming remains enjoyable.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

1000s of hours to work for great gearing in definitely too long of a time requirement. I don't harken back for the original D3 formulas of 100s of hours of crap loot to get a legendary of good quality to drop. That spelled disaster for Blizzard and same is true for PoE. That having been said we also don't want a rain of high quality loot too fast or we get BiS gear too soon and than there's nothing left to farm for. Right now PoE is too far toward the D3 side of quality loot and orb drops for most and a moderate shift toward the RoS or TL2 side would be an improvement and go a long way to ease frustrations and burnout and "I quit" syndrome.

You're not getting it.

The problem with D3 was not that, after hundreds of hours of farming crap, a unique of quality would finally drop. It was that uniques of quality never dropped, because the game did not contain uniques of quality, just shitty ones.

Good item design in an ARPG is like good card design in Magic the Gathering. It is vital to provide options to enhance builds in creative ways. It is not okay to make collectible objects boring, disconnected from your build's theme, or strictly superior/inferior to everything else you could have in slot. Even if you have a full set of everything which exists in the game, and currency literally is no object, deciding what to use should not be an easy choice.

D3 took this concept of interesting itemization and threw it completely out the window. Comparing items always reveals one being strictly superior to the other, rather than a contest between peers with pros and cons to either choice. It's 99.99% a pure numbers game.

I am not going to say that PoE has none of these problems itself. However, making it so you get 20 or even 30 cards per Magic the Gathering booster pack isn't going to make the game even one bit better. It's the items themselves which determine whether players have incentive to collect them.

Changing drop rates doesn't fix a thing. It is okay to make certain items rare, perhaps even absurdly rare... as long as they're sufficiently interesting. Refining unique design and how rare affixes work is what ensures farming remains enjoyable.

Yeah well that's all well and good, but as long as GGG keeps adding mods like 'Increased light radius' to dilute the pool of useful mods your arguement is working against you. Also this has nothing to do with a SFL, unless you are suggesting that the mod pools should be altered if a SFL is ever made. I would actually support this idea too.

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lukeiy wrote:

Yeah well that's all well and good, but as long as GGG keeps adding mods like 'Increased light radius' to dilute the pool of useful mods your arguement is working against you. Also this has nothing to do with a SFL, unless you are suggesting that the mod pools should be altered if a SFL is ever made. I would actually support this idea too.

It has a lot to do with a SFL, because it is the real solution to the problem, and SFL is a fake solution which wouldn't solve anything.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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lukeiy wrote:

Yeah well that's all well and good, but as long as GGG keeps adding mods like 'Increased light radius' to dilute the pool of useful mods your arguement is working against you. Also this has nothing to do with a SFL, unless you are suggesting that the mod pools should be altered if a SFL is ever made. I would actually support this idea too.

It has a lot to do with a SFL, because it is the real solution to the problem, and SFL is a fake solution which wouldn't solve anything.

um people would enjoy it and make them happy? Should find things in life that give you enjoyment.


it may not "solve" your problems with the game but people would enjoy playing it

SFL is a stupid idea and will always be a stupid idea.

It's basically asking for a private server and all private servers get old (boring) fast.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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lukeiy wrote:

Yeah well that's all well and good, but as long as GGG keeps adding mods like 'Increased light radius' to dilute the pool of useful mods your arguement is working against you. Also this has nothing to do with a SFL, unless you are suggesting that the mod pools should be altered if a SFL is ever made. I would actually support this idea too.

It has a lot to do with a SFL, because it is the real solution to the problem, and SFL is a fake solution which wouldn't solve anything.

No it doesn't. Like you've harped in so many other threads, simply improving the quality of drops is just going to speed up the power creep.

SFL is an entirely different topic, related to drops being balanced around trading. Eg. There is a low chance of finding something good for your build so that you are forced to trade the good items you find for the good items that someone else has found. SFL for me would mean improved drops so that you can gear out a character in endgame without the arbitrary trading part.

Edit: Because in my opinion drop rates are perfectly fine if you trade every now and then, but not everyone wants to do that.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It has a lot to do with a SFL, because it is the real solution to the problem, and SFL is a fake solution which wouldn't solve anything.

There is no real solution to the problem, hence why I am here. If you can point to one thing the devs have said that they will do in regards to these issues then I would stop supporting a SFL entirely, but they won't. I think you know that but you don't care because you will never support anything that isn't 100% Scrotie approved. Your the "doctor" and we're just the patients awaiting your instructions. No one knows what would be fun edition to the game around here except you apparently.

its kinda weird that people tracking someone's posts in the past...

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iamstryker wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It has a lot to do with a SFL, because it is the real solution to the problem, and SFL is a fake solution which wouldn't solve anything.

There is no real solution to the problem, hence why I am here. If you can point to one thing the devs have said that they will do in regards to these issues then I would stop supporting a SFL entirely, but they won't. I think you know that but you don't care because you will never support anything that isn't 100% Scrotie approved. Your the "doctor" and we're just the patients awaiting your instructions. No one knows what would be fun edition to the game around here except you apparently.

I actually do support some things where I don't agree with every last detail, and support strongly. Path of Exile, for example. But that's just answering some kind of pseudo ad-hominem; I digress.

Back on point: Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that you are the negative. Which I mean in the debate sense. You're not the negative, you're the affirmative. You can't just say "show me one thing which will work and then we're good." No, you show me something that will work. You can't argue your point by absurdly saying "oh, well, if you can't think of anything constructive, allow us to do random stuff according to our own personal whims instead."

If you want to change the game, you need to support your argument for changing it. And in my book, democracy is a shitty reason; explain its merits, using valid reasons, or stop wasting time.

Oh, and in general, I prefer working from the problem towards a solution, not the kind of thinking process here, where one works from a proposed solution towards what problems it would actually solve. Maybe instead of jumping to conclusions in terms of how to fix problems, you could explain what the problems actually are; I'm sure we might disagree a bit, but probably disagree less than you'd expect. Remember: you're the affirmative side of this debate, so you need to convince people not only that the status quo is fucked, but that you know precisely why the status quo is fucked; not just that the patient is sick, but provide an actual diagnosis to go along with your treatment.