"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
The valid argument is simple and common (to the point of being a cliche): unlike Hardcore, there is no economic need for a separate league, because self-found players do not trade.
The argument that a separate league is needed is usually based on a desire for increased drop rates. This argument is invalid, because even that does not constitute an economic need for a separate league. All you really want is increased drop rates; the "separate league" part of the suggestion is essentially an elaborate sophistry, designed to convince others that a potentially massive droprate increase is okay. It's isn't; a moderate one, perhaps. If you subtract the bullshit, it's just a plea for increasing drop rates overall, in all leagues, without creating any new leagues. This isn't necessarily a bad suggestion; it's just a simple and common one (to the point of being a cliche). The popularity of SFL can mostly be explained by people trying to take a simple suggestion and gloss it up as a somehow fancy and creative one, when it's not.
The argument that a separate league would be nice in order to have a separate ladder and thus a separate competition, however, isn't a bad one. Especially when explicitly divorced from the increased drop rates suggestion. Some SFL supporters, such as Fourist, are known for taking this kind of stance. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with adding a "Solo" checkbox to each league which would give each character its own personal stash (to prohibit swapping between same-account characters), prohibited trading, and prohibited partying. Characters so marked could have their own ladder. I think that would be a cool competition, actually.
However, checking that box shouldn't increase drop rates at all. If you want better drop rates, just ask for them. For everyone. I don't know how far such an obviously casual suggestion will go, but I really think you'll do better if you drop the bullshit.
That's bullshit, I don't want increased droprates for the current leagues (everyone) because it isn't required, with minimal level of trading enough currency could be gathered easily.
In the other hand for a self found player, someone who never trades seeing eternal orb, also in most cases even an exalt is a dream.
Nice try Scrotie but those two are not the same.
No longer a forum dweller, please use PM for contact purposes.
|
Posted byignarsoll#5178on Apr 28, 2014, 2:59:18 PM
|
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
The valid argument is simple and common (to the point of being a cliche): unlike Hardcore, there is no economic need for a separate league, because self-found players do not trade.
The argument that a separate league is needed is usually based on a desire for increased drop rates. This argument is invalid, because even that does not constitute an economic need for a separate league. All you really want is increased drop rates; the "separate league" part of the suggestion is essentially an elaborate sophistry, designed to convince others that a potentially massive droprate increase is okay. It's isn't; a moderate one, perhaps. If you subtract the bullshit, it's just a plea for increasing drop rates overall, in all leagues, without creating any new leagues. This isn't necessarily a bad suggestion; it's just a simple and common one (to the point of being a cliche). The popularity of SFL can mostly be explained by people trying to take a simple suggestion and gloss it up as a somehow fancy and creative one, when it's not.
The argument that a separate league would be nice in order to have a separate ladder and thus a separate competition, however, isn't a bad one. Especially when explicitly divorced from the increased drop rates suggestion. Some SFL supporters, such as Fourist, are known for taking this kind of stance. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with adding a "Solo" checkbox to each league which would give each character its own personal stash (to prohibit swapping between same-account characters), prohibited trading, and prohibited partying. Characters so marked could have their own ladder. I think that would be a cool competition, actually.
However, checking that box shouldn't increase drop rates at all. If you want better drop rates, just ask for them. For everyone. I don't know how far such an obviously casual suggestion will go, but I really think you'll do better if you drop the bullshit.
The (checkboxSFchar)league you describe sounds fun but not what we need for long term. One desynch and everyone would quit your version. Plus in your version, you save your orbs to use later til you die and lose all your orbs(on rip) without using them. That would be weird.
Last edited by xxSerpentlordxx#0809 on Apr 28, 2014, 3:05:59 PM
|
|
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Trading isn't hardcore; I'm with you on that one. However, farming isn't hardcore either — assuming that by farming, we mean unthreatening repetition of instances for incremental profit.
Being undergeared and/or underleveled for the content is hardcore.
Well this is something I pointed out over a year ago.
After a hardcore progression, I come against a gate where I have 2 choices.
Continue to not trade and farm unthreatening monsters, slowly but surely outgearing the gated content that could be threatening.
Or.
Trade and outgear that content also.
Yes, Scrotie, neither are hardcore, which is the reason this game is not hardcore. It could be, but it disallows itself. What makes it more ridiculous, whenever I point this out, I'm inevitably met with a majority of replies calling me casual, entitled, etc, etc. Which I believe is a WAI design of PoE. The target audience wearing their pretend hardcore badge.
Casually casual.
|
Posted byTheAnuhart#4741on Apr 28, 2014, 3:02:31 PM
|
"
ignarsoll wrote:
I always said my focus is to use orbs as they're supposed to work, for crafting.
Removing trading is not going to make this problem even one bit better; there is no difference in efficiency between voluntarily consuming your orbs instead of trading them, and being forced to consume your orbs instead of trading them.
Increasing drop rates isn't going to have much of an impact on this problem. If an orb is best hoarded until you get as far as you can possibly progress, and find an item as close to mirror-worthy as possible except maybe with not enough links and a couple affixes missing... then two orbs are best hoarded until you get that far, as well. GGG actually tested this in CB, and the result of (stealth) increasing orb drops was that players used less orbs; not less as a percentage, less orbs period. Drop rate increases are not an effective solution.
If you're looking to fix crafting, you are barking up the wrong solution tree.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Apr 28, 2014, 3:08:50 PM
|
Posted byScrotieMcB#2697on Apr 28, 2014, 3:02:42 PM
|
"
TheAnuhart wrote:
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Trading isn't hardcore; I'm with you on that one. However, farming isn't hardcore either — assuming that by farming, we mean unthreatening repetition of instances for incremental profit.
Being undergeared and/or underleveled for the content is hardcore.
Well this is something I pointed out over a year ago.
After a hardcore progression, I come against a gate where I have 2 choices.
Continue to not trade and farm unthreatening monsters, slowly but surely outgearing the gated content that could be threatening.
Or.
Trade and outgear that content also.
Yes, Scrotie, neither are hardcore, which is the reason this game is not hardcore. It could be, but it disallows itself. What makes it more ridiculous, whenever I point this out, I'm inevitably met with a majority of replies calling me casual, entitled, etc, etc. Which I believe is a WAI design of PoE. The target audience wearing their pretend hardcore badge.
Except there is the third option: just press forward. Don't trade, don't farm, just do. Leeroy Jenkins.
I think the idea is that if farming is tedious, and trading is tedious, then players are motivated to Leeroy. I think they've actually done a decent job with the tediousness; I certainly don't feel very motivated to do either, so I normally just slog forward and risk death in the process.
I said all this already. Are you actually reading my posts?
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Apr 28, 2014, 3:07:57 PM
|
Posted byScrotieMcB#2697on Apr 28, 2014, 3:05:17 PM
|
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
"
ignarsoll wrote:
I always said my focus is to use orbs as they're supposed to work, for crafting.
Removing trading is not going to make this problem even one bit better; there is no difference in efficiency between voluntarily consuming your orbs instead of trading them, and being forced to your orbs instead of trading them.
Increasing drop rates isn't going to have much of an impact on this problem. If an orb is best hoarded until you get as far as you can possibly progress, and find an item as close to mirror-worthy as possible except maybe with not enough links and a couple affixes missing... then two orbs are best hoarded until you get that far, as well.
If you're looking to fix crafting, you are barking up the wrong solution tree.
You're only sharing your opinion, so please stop forcing them like they are facts.
I'm also not talking about a problem, only a preference of a gameplay style.
No longer a forum dweller, please use PM for contact purposes.
|
Posted byignarsoll#5178on Apr 28, 2014, 3:06:46 PM
|
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Except there is the third option: just press forward. Don't trade, don't farm, just do. Leeroy Jenkins.
I said all this already. Are you actually reading my posts?
Uhhm, Scrotie, 'just press forward' costs currency that only the 'two methods' will produce.
The two, remember, not hardcore methods.
Jees, Scrotie.
Casually casual.
|
Posted byTheAnuhart#4741on Apr 28, 2014, 3:09:13 PM
|
"
TheAnuhart wrote:
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Except there is the third option: just press forward. Don't trade, don't farm, just do. Leeroy Jenkins.
I said all this already. Are you actually reading my posts?
Uhhm, Scrotie, 'just press forward' costs currency that only the 'two methods' will produce.
The two, remember, not hardcore methods.
Jees, Scrotie.
You're assuming maps aren't sustainable. I'm assuming they are. I haven't run into any problems with that assumption in Ambush.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
|
Posted byScrotieMcB#2697on Apr 28, 2014, 3:10:35 PM
|
"
GrumpyOldMan73 wrote:
Self found is essentially "No Trade", much like the races GGG already runs.
They'd just need to make a permanent or even a 4-month "W-NT" modded league: Wealthy No-Trade. All creatures have the Wealthy modifier. Done and done. No coding required - except perhaps to enable the "wealthy" innate.
If it ran as a 1-week "dead end" (no promotion to standard) pilot, we could see how it works. Folks could still group, but drops would be permanently allocated and no trading allowed.
Post too logical. To be ignored and buried in the rest of the tripe constituting this thread.
Seriously though, the fact that GGG hasn't already made a 1/2 week test league to learn how SFL is received clearly indicates that they don't give two shits about SFL. Sad for some, but the reality.
|
Posted byCataract#0343on Apr 28, 2014, 3:12:46 PM
|
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
I honestly wouldn't have a problem with adding a "Solo" checkbox to each league which would give each character its own personal stash (to prohibit swapping between same-account characters), prohibited trading, and prohibited partying. Characters so marked could have their own ladder. I think that would be a cool competition, actually.
I bolded the completely ignorant part of your statement. Trading between your own characters is the bread and butter of SF.
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
However, checking that box shouldn't increase drop rates at all. If you want better drop rates, just ask for them. For everyone. I don't know how far such an obviously casual suggestion will go, but I really think you'll do better if you drop the bullshit.
You keep using that word (casual)... I think you know how this meme goes by now.
There are degrees of tedium of which I am willing to accept in a video game, currently playing SF in standard is not one of them, hence why I want higher drop rates in a SFL. So if by "casual" you mean less tedious, then yes, but that's not what casual means.
"
A casual game is a video game targeted at or used by a mass audience of casual gamers. Casual games can have any type of gameplay, and fit in any genre. They are typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required in contrast to more complex hardcore games.
Removing trading from PoE and buffing drop rates isn't going to suddenly make the game any less complex or even easier, just less tedious. Now there is a threshold here, which I can only imagine that you are grossly exaggerating in your mind, where buffing drop rates too much will make the game easier, but there is quite a wide margin.
Currently, drops are set to "lol fuck you noob, go trade". I would like to see them improved to at least something close to Diablo 2, which if you don't know, is MUCH higher than PoE.
I like how you say the word casual is not negative, and then immediately use it in a negative fashion.
"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Except there is the third option: just press forward. Don't trade, don't farm, just do. Leeroy Jenkins.
Last edited by Mephasm#3703 on Apr 28, 2014, 3:45:00 PM
|
Posted byMephasm#3703on Apr 28, 2014, 3:33:49 PM
|
